Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Has anyone done this?

DD won't be skipping a year in math - she skipped algebra in 7th grade. She will take Advanced Algebra (Algebra II) this year followed by Pre-Calc her sophomore year and AP Calc her junior year. We don't know yet what will happen her senior year but we know we have some options. We don't want her to test out of Advanced Algebra, nor do we think she could test out of it, we just want her to take it this year while also being able to take Spanish and band.

She needs two years of foreign language and Spanish is the only option. It would be nice to have the option to take four years of Spanish if she likes it.

She is at the top of her class at this point and, while grades and g.p.a. are obviously important, they are not our main concern and we would prefer that she be challenged and learn things and not get a 4.0 without working for it.

So here are a few extra random thoughts/ideas for you - feel free to ignore if they don't apply!

1) Are there other middle schools that feed into the high school she'll eventually attend? Are there other students in those schools who are subject-accelerated in math? I'm just curious if she's the only student at her school in this situation or the only student in her potential high school. (ps - maybe she'll be in high school in 9th grade? Sorry if I'm confused about which type of school she'll be in - I'm guessing she'll still be in middle school for 9th grade just based on the scheduling issue).

2) Do you think it might help in any way to bring up that this type of essentially 2-year subject acceleration in math (Algebra II in 9th grade) is becoming more widespread in the US? At least it is in our district - starting probably about 5 years ago when our district first looked into offering pre-algebra to 6th grade students across the district - the group that was allowed to take it was small (a few students from each elementary school), but there was some discussion/experimenting done re could pre-algebra be offered throughout the district in 6th grades to capable students - it was something that was seen as a *positive* here, and while it's not the norm, the group of students and the number of schools participating has grown. I *think* that part of the method that the courser is taught in involves online access to classes (just within our district). I'm sorry I don't have anything specifically published that I can send you about it, but I do think it's worth being aware that this type of math-path is becoming more "common" in the US - I have several friends in other states who's children are on a similar schedule in public school.

3)
I think in some ways, this is a strong point in your favor. They see her as a 9th grader doing 10th grade math. If you look at that from one perspective, if they are offering resistance, you can play that back as "this is ONLY ONE year acceleration we are talking about".

4) Put together a back-up plan to show progress and mastery at certain points during the year (end of first quarter, for example), and a back-up plan if at any of those points she's not showing adequate achievement or if at any point in time things aren't working well. To show mastery could be as simple as taking the same tests that other Algebra II students in her high school are taking. A back-up plan might be something like hiring a tutor to provide the discussion ahead-of-learning that takes place in a typical math class.

5) I think if you googled around a bit about flipped classrooms you might find some examples of schools who have students working through math in a flipped manner. This doesn't apply directly to your situation, but it's an example of how different schools are placing importance on students being allowed to work at their appropriate learning level, and also of how it's possible to think outside the box vs assuming that only a traditional math classroom will work for all kids. Sometimes educators (and all of us!) get very caught up in thinking things will only work the way we've approached them successfully in the past - but that doesn't mean trying something new and different won't work. You know that, of course - but you might need to remind the school staff.

Sorry those thoughts were a bit random - good luck with advocating!

polarbear

Is this small school familiar with math course sequences at typical public schools? In our district (and many others), Algebra II for the top 10% of students is the norm. Also, I'm a bit confused on the Spanish - while the two years is required, how many years of Spanish does the school offer? Do they only offer Spanish in HS? Seems odd - most private schools I know of start foreign languages in elementary, and public schools start them by 7th grade (so you can get to the AP course). I strongly suggest taking four years of Spanish. Top colleges (and even those a tier below) want more than two years.

Schedule conflicts are a pain. Middle kid has another one this year - French IV Honors and Spanish IV Honors are offered the same period. AP French fits the schedule so I think she'll do that (it is that or Non-honors Spanish IV and a switch to weight lifting for PE class- but maybe my 5'-5", 105 lb. kid could use that).

I think you need to go to this meeting clearly stating that her taking all three of these subjects are NECESSARY for her or routine & normal for a 9th graders. Like NotSoGifted say, Algebra II in 8th grade is taken by about 10% of our school. Go in explaining that you aren't just trying to meet H.S. requirements, but those for most 4 year universities.

1) Math -- Algebra II is a necessary course for her to take this year. Your H.S. must expect at least 2 years of math, and mine doesn't allow you to skip math until you have at least met minimum requirements. She has already passed Algebra & Geometry what do they want her to do, skip math for the year?

2) Spanish (or another language) -- is necessary since any top tier university will expect at least 3 years of a foreign language. Some universities only require 2.. but most want to see more. This is not really an elective IMO.

3) Band -- because she needs this for social/emotional. Being involved in the school, and participating in music is very important. And universities do look for this type of participation.

Ask them how they are going to make it happen. It sounds from your initial post its (Spanish & Band) OR ALgebra II right? It doesn't sound like the course load is unusual at your school (my son took all 3 this past year and he wasn't alone in doing so), nor something your daughter couldn't handle just that someone messed up with the scheduling so this wasn't possible. Someone who was setting up scheduling should have made sure that this was possible, your kid can't be the only one wanting to take Algebra II & 1st year Spanish. I find it very helpful in this kind of meeting to first make it THEIR problem and see them struggle with how to solve it. And THEN suggest your and your daughter solution, the independent study suggestion.

Bring you daughter to the meeting if she already isn't going to be there. At my H.S. the students are always excepted at this kind of meeting. Since you say this is your daughters idea, I would think it would carry more weight. If she can make the presentation to the adults it will be a lot more convincing than you presenting the idea.

Good Luck.

DD's school is a very small private school. DD is going into 9th grade, so HS. She only has about 35 kids in her grade. She really is the only one in her grade taking Algebra II this year. I am guessing that the other students taking Algebra II are in a higher-level spanish class or not also trying to take band.) The school looked at trying to rearrange the entire course schedule to accommodate DD, but just couldn't make it work.

Her doing Algebra II this year is not up for debate. The school just says that, because of scheduling conflicts, she must choose between taking Spanish or Band in order for her math schedule to work. But my DD wants to take both Spanish and Band this year (and every year; the school does offer up through Spanish IV; there is middle school Spanish but that is a different animal and only 9th grade up can take Spanish I). Her idea is to do math by independent study so that she can take both band and Spanish this year. The counselor has expressed that this is unlikely to work, although they would discuss it with the academic dean and the math teacher. We - DD, DH, and I - think it would be a good solution for this year, and hopefully next year she could resume taking math in the classroom. She is HG+ (>99.9), very mature, and has shown through having to navigate a slightly-off schedule last year that she is very good at managing herself.

We do plan for DD to be there at the meeting in a couple of weeks. We just want to make sure that we have our ducks in a row before heading into the meeting.

Yes, this, exactly.

I would be a little concerned that her case is unusual, and that she is the only 9th grader taking Algebra II. Of course, the public or parochial school options may not be reasonable options - I can only compare to schools I know.

While the private schools around here are larger, mine was not much larger - I had 45 in my class. At my alma mater, there are three modern language choices, plus Latin. 9th graders take Algebra II unless they somehow got behind in math...so you can understand my confusion.

I think you have mentioned that you have/had kids at the local public school? Is public school not an option for HS? Not that she wants to change schools at this point, but just wondering what the math and language options would have been there. Also, with only two years of Spanish required, what is the private school college counselor's take on years of foreign language taken? It isn't too early to start talking to the counselor - after all, you are paying for this.

Is this the same school she's in this year or a new school?

Since it's a small private school, I'd probably take two approaches:

1) Reassurance that she's capable. If she's not changing schools, have her math teacher (or previous teachers) come to the meeting to throw in their opinion that she's capable. If it's a new school, see if they will write a letter of recommendation stating she will be able to handle the work independently. If you can think of other situations in which she's worked independently (like at a summer camp or a course she's after-schooled in or something like that, you can mention that too).

2) Spin this as an *advantage* for the school - something that future potential families looking at the school might see as a plus - the willingness to be able to adapt for special circumstances. We have a similar-sized small private school in our town, and when we looked at them for ds, they were very eager to show off how they worked to individualize curriculum based on student needs. Like your school, they were only able to offer one Algebra II class, for example and one Spanish 1 class per semester etc - but they had students working at many different levels of math - the kids who were the outliers in some cases left campus to take the courses they needed at a local college, in other cases they switched the order they did their science courses in - so that kids who were accelerated in math in 9th grade would take the 10th grade science course, and kids who were not accelerated would take the 9th grade course. I just have a gut feeling that since it's a small school, there are a lot of upsides for the school to accommodate your dd's taking Algebra II independently so she can stay in band and also take Spanish 1, and more importantly, so she can fulfill her academic needs and desires. Those upsides can be turned into selling points for the school - so if you can spin it that way it might help sell it

Best wishes,

polarbear

Just to look at it differently. Life often requires difficult choices and sometimes we can't have what we want. It sounds like the school has made a genuine attempt to make it work. Perhaps she should just drop band or Spanish. As far as I know not being able to take the exact courses you want is not uncommon even without the complication of being the only one from your grade in a class above level.

Eta. Drop band and substitute some sort of extramural activity.

My DYS DD9 has been doing AoPS pre-algebra with a reasonable amount of success. I am in a similar position in that my DD is already grade skipped one grade (we are reluctant to skip more) but way ahead of her classmates. Pragmatically, we cannot expect her grade school teachers to be able to differentiate for just her.

We like the AoPS format a lot because it stresses a genuine discovery based approach that embraces rigour as opposed to the apparent standard US approach of using discovery as a substitute for rigour, KWIM?

We started this during the last half of the last academic year and eventually got DD's teacher to accept that DD would do all of her regular class homework, tests and 'group work' but would do her AoPS work in the 'quiet' solitary work times in the classroom.

We photocopied the relevant chapter work from the AoPS text so as to not make DD look too conspicuous by working from a completely different book. We assured the teacher that DD would come to us for any guidance not her so that concerns that she would unfairly have to support DD's needs over every other student would be alleviated. This worked well for us last year (4th grade).

We are planning on a 'softly, softly' approach next year and not pushing this next year until after the first teacher/parent conference as practice during the soccer season will consume a lot of DD's time after school anyway.