Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments EPGY OE. What's included? Homeschool with it?

I want to ask about EPGY OE (Open Enrollment)
http://epgy.stanford.edu/for-parents/epgy-open-enrollment

Background: In another thread
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted..../all/Debating_home_school_vs_virtua.html
I say I want to quit our k12.com free public charter virtual school, and go to pure home schooling. But I need to convince DW. Mainly I need to find convincingly solid course materials for Mathematics and English/ELA (and the rest we'll improvise)? We need it for DS8(will be grade 3, but ready for Algebra I, and grade 4 English/ELA), and DD5(will be grade K, has been reading for 2 years and can do a bit of writing and arithmetic, purely self taught).

So I see at
http://epgy.stanford.edu/for-parents/epgy-open-enrollment/courses
that EPGY OE covers Mathematics and English/ELA K-7, plus "Beginning Algebra", in a purely online format. It is $135 per 10 months, so the price is fine for our cost conscious budget.

Is this price per student?
When we look at the Registration Form page
http://epgy.stanford.edu/for-parents/epgy-open-enrollment/register
we see there is a choice to join an existing group, or create a new group (which could just be our family).
Any thoughts on choosing or creating a group?

As to the course content, how comprehensive is it?
It is purely online, right?
What kind of instruction does it include?
What is necessary/desirable to supplement it with?
For math, do you just use you own blank paper to write on, as needed to solve online problems?
For English/ELA:
What do you do about basic handwriting practice?
What do you do about writing/composition practice?
What about reading? Presumably you have to buy/borrow books to read, but do they have suggested reading lists, and do they have online content related to that reading?

Generally, in what ways does EPGY OE fall short of being a complete Mathematics and English/ELA curriculum for homeschoolers?

It says the Language Arts and Writing course assumes the student read at least at grade 2 level. I don't know what level this is, but surely DD5, self taught and reading for 2 almost years, would be at that level, right?

DS8 needs a good Algebra I course. He found k12.com prealgebra very easy, but he is not yet fluent in solving equations and algebraic manipulation (past the most basic kinds) and he needs instruction, not just problem solving. Is EPGY a good foundation before moving on to AoPS?

If you PM me an e-mail address, I can e-mail you a curriculum guide for the EPGY OE ELA and Algebra; I don't have one for K-7 math. EPGY does offer a placement test for proper placement in K-7 and the ELA, but you don't want to enroll if your DS is beyond the curriculum already. Have you had DS take the AoPS diagnostic to see if he's ready to start there for pre-algebra or algebra? If so, he's beyond EPGY OE.

If you decide to go the EPGY route, I can tell you people in my learning group frequently supplement with Singapore math word problems if they are homeschooling. EPGY ELA is basically grammar, mechanics, and writing, so you'll have to provide reading/literature instruction.

We use EPGY for both LA and Math - the content is same for both Open Enrollment and the Gifted program - only, there is a Stanford tutor available on the phone in the Gifted program if the child needs handholding. In our case, we are perfectly capable of teaching our child, hence opted for the OE program. There is a brief introduction of the topic, then there are lessons (a software backend that tracks your child's mistakes and pops up questions related to that sub-topic often enough until mastery has been reached). Progress depends on the child's abilities. There is a method by which you can go back to a topic later on and review it, but it is not user friendly.
My child finished the whole elementary level math program in 1.5 years while using EPGY sporadically (he is 6 years old now) - this is after spending time for regular school homework, using Dreambox (which gets more points from me than EPGY!), working on Singapore math/Zaccaro/Beast Academy for after schooling etc - I am pointing this out because the EPGY lessons were short and not overly challenging for my DS in the elementary level. Zaccaro and CWP from Singapore Math were more fun for him in many cases. So, I consider EPGY as a supplement and not a whole curriculum.
We have not yet moved to the Algebra portion of EPGY because I want to wait until they introduce the new platform for the UI this year as the current platform is not easy to work with.

The LA was not very interesting and the UI was clunky and irritating. DS had to drag and drop words into a box to form legitimate sentences and his mouse skills are pretty good and he still wanted me to help dragging words because the UI was not very smooth. They say that they are working on better interfaces for this year.

EPGY OE is cheap compared to CTY and AOPS. But, investigate the AOPS options further before you decide upon EPGY.
And EPGY is a single user program and it keeps track of a single student and "customizes" questions based on that students previous scores.

There was a post on an earlier thread
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....GY_Open_Enrollment_Group.html#Post171467
And at
http://epgy.stanford.edu/for-parents/epgy-open-enrollment/register
you can click on "Create New Group", though the question is, does this make you into an SSA. I'll try to find out.
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It's a pity people didn't like the "Language Arts and Writing" part, as that makes the whole package less attractive. Also is the "Reading and Writing about Literature" (that is available in the more expensive "Instructed Courses") not contained in the cheaper EPGY OE? Not being a full ELA package is also a problem.

DS8 definitely needs a solid Algebra 1 course, (but not prealgebra) so my thinking was he'd at least get one math course out of EPGY OE (and he could have a quick whiz through grade 7, maybe 6, as a quick skills check) so he'd get some value out of the package, more so if the ELA was worthwhile. For math, AoPS is definitely his main place for the next several years starting now, so maybe EPGY is redundant.

We do not school our kids pre K at all, so DD5 will be starting her first schooling. She likes using the computer, and with K being a kind of warm up year, I was thinking she could play around with EPGY OE, and get an idea of her level, and hopefully learn something.

On balance, it still looks like an okay option, but it seems I also need to look into other things as well.
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I'll ask about this one in the linked thread.

Is this EGPY good for gauging what grade level your child is at?

DD10 has done some work on the OE EPGY program for a couple years now just as after-schooling/enrichment. I don't remember a placement test, but I do think others have mentioned one. I just started her at the 3rd grade level and went from there. She just gets on the program every once in a while and to be honest I still don't quite understand how to tell when she has officially learned everything she is to learn at each level. Parents can go in and bump the student up through the levels, which is what I’ve always done, so I’m not sure if the program moves the kids up through the grade levels on its own or not. We initially wanted the program for just the math, but after a while she started doing both the math and language arts. It is a bit "dry" and there are certainly no flashy games or prizes/badges to earn, etc., but I feel at least the math is a well-rounded program.

DD10 has worked through the EPGY 3rd-6th grade math curriculum and it is probably time to bump her up to the 7th grade level or try the beginning algebra. She has been doing some basic algebra at home and with her gifted teacher for a while now, but I wanted to see her work through the 6th grade EPGY curriculum after she had to deal with enVision Math at her public school this past year. I just wanted to be sure she understood the concepts before moving on.

It is set up as an individual program and multiple children would require multiple accounts. I don't think I would use it as a stand-alone curriculum, but it would be good as part of a curriculum. Once a child gets going, the program is set up to run for 20 minutes, so the child can work on as much of that subject they can until time runs out. This would mean 20 min of math and another 20 min of LA. This caused some issues for DD10 because she would be in the middle of solving a problem and she would time out. I found a way (or asked our SSA) to get rid of the 20 minute time limit, but I sure don't remember how I did it. For math, DD10 just keeps a bit of scrap paper on hand if she needs it and I’ve allowed her to use a calculator at times. As others have said - the LA doesn't really require any writing but it gives a listing of words that the student has to drag and drop into place. DD10 has had some issues with the drag and drop parts - I think mainly because she didn't quite understand what the program was asking her or the sentence she created wasn't an exact match to what the program wanted (if that makes sense). Another issue she has mentioned is when they ask her to form a sentence she has a different idea about what she wants to write and the words she wants to use are not in the choices the program gives her, so she has to rethink using the given words.

One benefit (IMO) is the reports you can print out showing what level the child is working on, what concepts they have covered, and a scored percentage. For example – the child worked 10 division problems and got 8 correct. The program gives you that information showing you the 80% and you can go back and look at what they got wrong to try to determine if they just didn’t understand or maybe hurried through, etc.

If your DS8 does end up doing the algebra you'll have to let us all know what he thought.

Okay, so I went to
http://epgy.stanford.edu/for-parents/epgy-open-enrollment/register
and clicked on "Create New Group", and filled out the form with a parent and our DCs, so our group is our family. Then I emailed info@epgy.stanford.edu to request SSA credentials for our group/family (it's not automatic when you create the group, but you just have to ask for it after). Alternatively, you can join a group that already exists.

Our DCs haven't started using it yet. But I have explored the SSA account and played with the settings.

You/SSA can change the setting to "gifted" (this applies to K-7 Math only, not LA/Wr or Alg).

But another setting that I'm guessing will speed things up is (for each subject) in "Session Settings" have "Review exercises* (0-15)" set to 0, so you don't have to start each session with a bunch of review exercises (unless you want to).

The "Math races" are optional. You can set (session) "Duration* (10-300)" to 300. There are a bunch of things that can be set.

The review exercises aren't at the beginning of a session. They come after a lecture to practice the concept taught. I'd reduce them to 4 first and go down from there. The computer should adjust the number of exercises anyway based on your child's performance, so most in my group leave them set at six.

The best way to "speed things up" is to start with proper placement. I recommend setting up an Initial Placement Test for each of your children. I typically use the 48 question/45 minute test rather than the 100 question version. I've found it very accurate. You'll need to switch the curriculum to reinforcement to set up the test. After the test's completed, the program will automatically set the new grade placement. Then switch the curriculum back to gifted.

Looks like changes are on the way.
http://epgy.stanford.edu/parent-update