Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 210 guests, and 14 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    streble, DeliciousPizza, prominentdigitiz, parentologyco, Smartlady60
    11,413 Registered Users
    March
    S M T W T F S
    1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    2
    22B Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    2
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    This thread is to brainstorm about the pros and cons of, and the choice between, home school and virtual school (having already decided B&M school won't work.)

    Disclosure: We have been virtual schooling, but I have made my mind up that I want to switch to home schooling. What I really want from this thread are ideas to convince DW we should do this, otherwise the virtual schooling status quo will continue. I particularly need concrete suggestions of home schooling materials to replace what the virtual school feeds us.

    We initially chose virtual schooling because we were unsure how to go about home schooling, it is free (public virtual charter school), they chose and supplied the materials and online courses (k12.com in our case), there was structure, a school staff/teachers, report cards, and so on. DS8's been doing it 3 years, DD5 is due to start and DD3 will later.

    However compared to home schooling, the virtual school has less freedom/choice, more time wasting, more annoying school nonsense, mediocre (not great, not terrible) course materials. Acceleration is easy, but they don't have real gifted materials, you just get to go faster through the standard coursework.

    I'm sure we can do better with home schooling, but we need good materials. We want structured courses (preferably some interactive computer part, together with books/materials) for Mathematics and ELA (English/Language Arts) at least. Other subjects we can improvise in elementary school, as there's not much that must be covered. Cost is definitely a factor. DS8 is PG in math, and ready for AoPS, so that decision is easy. DS8 is MG in ELA. Not sure about DD5 or DD3, but they'll be some level of gifted. So we want proper academic materials that don't waste time or money. Apart from AoPS with its class time slots, we do not want any scheduled activities. Complete time freedom is essential.

    How do I convince DW that we can jump ship from a known virtual schooling to an unknown home schooling?

    Any ideas for putting a home schooling plan together? (Any other suitable forums for really getting into the details?)

    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    Is there a particular reason you want structured for English/ELA? I just ask because I think if I were planning homeschooling, that'd be one of the areas I'd be happiest to unschool.

    That said, many people seem to like the Michael Clay Thompson stuff - but of course I haven't seen it myself.

    You might like to visit the WTM accelerated learner forum:

    http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/forum/7-accelerated-learner-board/

    for more ideas.


    Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    2
    22B Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    2
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    Originally Posted by ColinsMum
    Is there a particular reason you want structured for English/ELA?
    Probably the same reason that we initially chose virtual school to start with: lack of confidence that we wouldn't mess it up, not our strong subject, not being sure what we should be doing, etcetera. And English/ELA is a "core" subject. I'm very open to suggestions, though. I guess what we need is some form of quality control, so our kids don't end up with a deficient education.

    Joined: Mar 2008
    Posts: 2,946
    M
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Mar 2008
    Posts: 2,946
    If you are looking for interactive online classes, take a look at this.

    http://www.athenasacademy.com/

    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    Who will be/is the primary educator at the moment? You or DW? As that will be a major factor. Also although I have no personal experience the common veiw is that the pace of the AOPS on-line courses are too fast for younger kids even the very gifted eve ones.

    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,244
    Likes: 1
    I
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    I
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,244
    Likes: 1
    Quote
    This thread is to brainstorm about the pros and cons of, and the choice between, home school and virtual school (having already decided B&M school won't work.)
    For homeschool, parents will want to check their State's laws and regulations and keep careful records for composing transcripts. Records may include dates and hours of study, reading lists, field trips taken, portfolio of projects and significant essays, etc.
    For virtual school (and B&M's which issue electronic devices such as ipads or laptops), parents may need to be aware that schools have the ability to turn on device microphone and camera within your home or other study location. Be aware of your local laws, school policies/practices, and permission forms which you sign.

    Quote
    I particularly need concrete suggestions of home schooling materials to replace what the virtual school feeds us.
    A large advantage to homeschooling is that it can be tailored and highly responsive to each child's interests, learning style, and educational needs. There is a vast pool of resources (old an new) to draw from. Supplemental materials may be added when a child's interest may indicate a readiness to slow down and dig deeper into a topic.

    Quote
    We initially chose virtual schooling because we were unsure how to go about home schooling, it is free (public virtual charter school), they chose and supplied the materials and online courses... there was structure, a school staff/teachers, report cards, and so on... However compared to home schooling, the virtual school has less freedom/choice, more time wasting, more annoying school nonsense, mediocre (not great, not terrible) course materials. Acceleration is easy, but they don't have real gifted materials, you just get to go faster through the standard coursework.
    There are different ways of being "free": without financial cost at point of service -vs- autonomy in decision making. These are often inversely proportional.

    Quote
    I'm sure we can do better with home schooling, but we need good materials... proper academic materials that don't waste time or money. Apart from AoPS with its class time slots, we do not want any scheduled activities. Complete time freedom is essential.
    Here again there may be an inverse relationship: more parental time may be need to be invested to source the most efficient curriculum for each child.

    Quote
    How do I convince DW that we can jump ship from a known virtual schooling to an unknown home schooling?
    By knowing you can do better with homeschooling. smile Look ahead to success stories of homeschoolers at college/university and beyond.

    Quote
    Any ideas for putting a home schooling plan together? (Any other suitable forums for really getting into the details?)
    You've received some great website suggestions already, I'll just add Gifted homeschooler's forum (GHF) and HSLDA.

    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 74
    G
    GF2 Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    G
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 74
    Lots of good advice above! We have gone back and forth between virtual school and homeschool. Homeschool definitely gives you the most flexibility and lets you do more in-depth work. We did a research project on comparative revolutions (French, Russian, and American) in 6th grade, for instance. Not something you'd normally see in an elementary curriculum! :-) Both of my dc's also have serious, multiple extracurrics, and pure homeschooling is the most flexible (although virtual school nearly so).

    There are three potential downsides, I found, to "pure" homeschooling. (I consider virtual school, at least at our school, which is private, to be a form of homeschooling, since we have a lot of choice about curriculum (we're at the HS level and in a school that tailors curriculum within any given course).) One is that coming up with the curriculum, while exciting, is wearing and stressful and can be expensive. We paid for so many things that flunked out quickly. My fault, certainly. Another downside is that, depending on what your dc's ambitions are, you need to keep an eye on credentialing. WE knew that we were working well above grade level, etc., but no one will credit "Mommy grades," so I found we had to do more standardized testing, CTY courses, etc. We still do a fair amount of this, but the virtual school grades are quite real and provide credentials (as well as helping pacify relatives, neighbors, etc. who insist that homeschooling surely is shortchanging the kids). Credentialing is not just the shallow aspect (getting Grandma to be quiet about how all five of her kids did just fine in public school etc. etc.) but also the internal sense, for the child, of how he/she stacks up in the eyes of a third party.

    Third is the perfectionism issue. Pure homeschool avoided the perfectionism for us, but confronting it in virtual school was better for my dc. What I mean is that DC initially felt very pressured about having real grades and a real schedule and having other people read the writing, etc. But going through that and getting past it was an important educational task that I couldn't accomplish in pure homeschooling, by definition.

    Concretely, and more positively: pure homeschool is definitely doable, and it makes for a fun and flexible family project! I strongly recommend Singapore Math. We tried lots of homeschool options (and spent way too much money! :-)) on others. SM is high-level, not too repetitive, and well-structured. I'd get the optional problems books as well. Of course, all this depends on your dc's tastes.

    English is a hard one. It happens to be one of my strong suits, so I always had fun choosing novels, poetry, etc. I did look around for courses and didn't love them. You might ask on the Well-Trained Mind boards. You could always do an anthology (like the Norton anthologies for high-school students; I'm not sure what level your dc needs).

    Foreign language is another hard one if you don't speak the language, but that's true in virtual school too.

    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    However compared to home schooling, the virtual school has less freedom/choice, more time wasting, more annoying school nonsense, mediocre (not great, not terrible) course materials. Acceleration is easy, but they don't have real gifted materials, you just get to go faster through the standard coursework.

    Okay-- some observations from the road ahead-- that is, if you don't detour, I mean.

    1. AP does offer more enriched curriculum-- look ahead into secondary and see what IS actually offered-- oh, and ask questions of your STATE provider to make sure that it is actually available, other than on pretty marketing materials, I mean. AP Art History wasn't actually a course that my DD could take. The reason why I suggest doing this is that AP will move more rapidly, and the level of thinking and analysis will be much higher. Oh-- and don't overlook the costs associated with homeschooling those classes. Textbooks alone can set you back a thousand or two a year.

    2. Ask (if you can) those who have had older students (esp. very bright ones) go through the secondary program. I know one who did your program through 8th grade before jumping ship to go with Connections, btw. They were not particularly pleased with K12 in secondary, but seemed to be more or less okay with Connections. The assessmemt scheme and what it means for class ranking, GPA, etc. was a big factor for them, I know.

    3. Understand that virtual school is by definition more rigid... but also carries weight with outside agencies that no homeschool transcript can compete with. (Right or wrong, I mean). In secondary, that ridigity is both an enormous pain the backside, but also good preparation for kids as they prepare to launch into post-secondary settings-- they HAVE to learn to do things that others ask of them (others meaning someone NOT mom or dad). That's another issue with adolescents, in fact-- that doing it because mom/dad have asked begins to pale significantly as an effective strategy somewhere around 10-11 yo for most kids. Even PG ones. Being flexible themselves, as students, rather than expecting OTHERS to flex to meet THEM-- that's one very important difference in virtual vs. pure homeschool, to my way of thinking.
    4. Do you have to "choose" at all? That is, is the virtual schooling tolerable enough to keep doing it for the paltry few hours it takes each week? This is what most of the very brightest of DD's classmates have wound up doing in high school, in the end-- that is, adding afterschooling and extracurriculurs (that they'd NEVER have time for if they were in brick-and-mortar settings) and then just chugging along, officially-- to generate the requisite transcript.

    5. When you say "time" freedom, how do you mean that? Day to day? Weekly? Monthly? Or literally-- no deadlines, ever? Because you can get pretty much all but the last with a virtual school. You may have to develop a thick skin about concerned teacher phone calls, and you may have to play don't-ask-don't-tell with the attendance ticker (What? Writing a novel IS educational time! Five hours! wink ) but it can definitely be done.

    6. Some kids who are perfectionists are driven by grades to such an extent that virtual school would be a continuous set of hits on a drug that they are clearly addicted to... and for others, it's an opportunity to face down that particular demon early enough that it makes a difference long term. Some of this is in the handling, of course-- but some of those opportunities will NEVER be available without the capricious behavior of others (teachers who take points away because they don't share your perspective), and without the time-pressure of producing adequate work with a deadline. This is a tough one for HG+ kids, who reach secondary material quite young-- before they have the emotional maturity that they need to wrestle with it, probably.

    7. How much will homeschooling allow the child to compensate for weaknesses with their strengths? This is a VERY real concern to me with HG+ kids. Their strengths tend to be seriously impressive. But-- as a mom, I felt that I was not doing DD any favors by allowing that to happen. She had to learn to write well, or she was eventually going to find that her educational opportunities were limited because of the resulting inflexibility. Because it wasn't ME asking her to write an essay about something she didn't care about... she couldn't manipulate me into letting it go. DO think about what sort of child you have. smile



    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    For homeschoolers/virtual schoolers, to what extent is your answer to 22B's question dependent upon the child's age? At what age did it become (or would it have become, had resources been available) necessary to have subject experts teaching your children?

    Last edited by aquinas; 06/24/14 09:50 AM. Reason: Typo

    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    That's a great consideration, aquinas-- I'd say that for us, the answer is that in my areas of strength, I was more than able to manage through secondary level. (STEM, social science, fwiw)

    But then again, I have post-secondary teaching experience in a pretty broad array of STEM topics, and come from a background of teaching at that level in the humanities.

    DD was definitely ready, willing, and chomping at the bit to do secondary/post-secondary level work by the time she was 10-11yo, which is when (virtual schooling) we began SERIOUSLY supplementing her course materials with college textbooks, etc. purchased on the cheap.

    In literature, this happened far, far sooner-- but we found it easier to accommodate, too, since it was a matter of reading more "adult" selections, and upping the level of discussion that our family naturally tends to do around theater, poetry, and books. So it didn't seem that odd to be discussing Langston Hughes or Walt Whitman with our DD when she was 7 or 8.



    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    Thanks for the feedback, HK. I ask because we're toying with the idea of homeschooling DS for junior, and possibly senior, kindergarten (ages 4-5), which will put him between the ages of 22B's younger two children.



    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 170
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 170
    My DS has done bits and pieces of a few of these.




    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    2
    22B Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    2
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    Thanks for the comments, everyone, and the specific suggestions of appropriate curriculums and other relevant forums.

    We're just talking about elementary school at the moment (even if some subjects are or will be done at higher level), so some concerns such as official grades, facilities (e.g. science labs), expert higher level subject teachers (hypotheticaly, at least), can be bridges we'll cross when we come to them. We can possibly switch to other schooling options later. The expectations for elementary school are so minimal, it seems virtually impossible to fall short academically with highly able kids.

    There are other concerns such as children being able to be focused, resilient, efficient, having a work ethic, and so on. But I don't see any one of home school or virtual school or various kinds of B&M schools being clearly better or worse in these regards.

    Timewise, we have the freedom to go travelling during school times by getting ahead of the schedule. But unfortunately we are finding it time consuming for both parent and kid, for various reasons. Hopefully with pure homeschooling we can focus on learning rather than doing, and not worry about the progress monitoring, work samples, practice tests and so on.

    By the way, where we are, to homeschool, once a year you just tell the department of education "we're homeschooling this year". That's it. Done. No monitoring, no scrutiny, no testing, nothing.

    A huge concern is cost. The virtual school is free (to us). The state pays the curriculum provider (k12.com in our case) way too much for what is essentially homeschooling material that is mediocre at best. Then the virtual school itself (a separate entity to k12.com) has its own staff and teachers that provide a combination of help and hindrance for no net gain. If only the state would give us a fraction of that budget directly to us to cover our own homeschooling costs, but that won't happen. So to homeschool independently we'd have to pay $1k per kid per year? $2k? More? With 3 kids and one 5-fig income, the costs could seriously carve into our budget. It could be money very well spent, or it could go badly. The cost-benefit analysis has to beat our current "free, and almost tolerable". Or maybe it's worse than "almost tolerable" and we just have to homeschool and figure out how to pay for it (save less, work more).

    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    Originally Posted by 22B
    A huge concern is cost. The virtual school is free (to us). The state pays the curriculum provider (k12.com in our case) way too much for what is essentially homeschooling material that is mediocre at best. Then the virtual school itself (a separate entity to k12.com) has its own staff and teachers that provide a combination of help and hindrance for no net gain. If only the state would give us a fraction of that budget directly to us to cover our own homeschooling costs, but that won't happen. So to homeschool independently we'd have to pay $1k per kid per year? $2k? More? With 3 kids and one 5-fig income, the costs could seriously carve into our budget. It could be money very well spent, or it could go badly. The cost-benefit analysis has to beat our current "free, and almost tolerable". Or maybe it's worse than "almost tolerable" and we just have to homeschool and figure out how to pay for it (save less, work more).

    I have a friend homeschooling in California who, for the imposition of an annual meeting with a teacher (who has apparently been helpful if anything to date; she has had no trouble with using her choice of materials) and doing the standard state tests, gets what sounds like a considerable contribution to the cost of homeschooling. From her experience, that sounds like a sweet spot, which does exist!


    Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    Originally Posted by ColinsMum
    I have a friend homeschooling in California who, for the imposition of an annual meeting with a teacher (who has apparently been helpful if anything to date; she has had no trouble with using her choice of materials) and doing the standard state tests, gets what sounds like a considerable contribution to the cost of homeschooling. From her experience, that sounds like a sweet spot, which does exist!

    Could you please comment further on what's involved and how she negotiated that arrangement, ColinsMum? It sounds pretty desirable! I can PM you if you'd prefer.


    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Joined: Jul 2013
    Posts: 222
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Jul 2013
    Posts: 222
    I homeschooled 1 last year and 2 this year. With a mix of complete and new curriculum in some core areas and consignment and free or cheap online in other areas, am spending approximately $400 per child. This includes all the extra side items that I would buy anyway if I weren't homeschooling. (ie some Usborne Encyclopedias) My husband is the main teacher so wants thing laid out a certain way. If I were the main teacher (meaning I didnt work a full time job), I am certain, that I could do it fairly easily for no more than $250 per child, but it would be more work. For even more work, it can be done for much less) For us, we were already buying so much supplemental material for school, it didnt really matter that much.

    Last edited by Chana; 06/26/14 08:30 PM.
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 74
    G
    GF2 Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    G
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 74
    Sorry my earlier post was focused on older kids. For elementary age, I think I'd definitely prefer pure homeschooling (indeed, I did!). The grade-level elementary work in the virtual schools is pretty poor, and, as you say, there's a lot of busy work and box-checking that is a hindrance to real learning. If you have a good public library, I'd think that you could probably homeschool young kids for not much more than you'd spend anyway on books, toys, etc. We already had lots of educational material lying around the house -- the kids would pick the Usborne encyclopedias as birthday gifts and treats or globes, etc.

    At the elementary level, too, I think the grade perfectionism is probably worse in the virtual school. There's time enough, later on, to develop a thick skin. At young ages, I think I'd focus on reading, creativity, math, and identity development and would ditch the virtual school!

    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    I think that it depends upon the child-- and the system. In Connections, at any rate, the CHILD cannot actually see his/her grades at will. Only the parent can.

    Honestly, the amount of work-product required at the lower grades completely made virtual school worth it for grades 3 through 7-- it was not at all bothersome, and we were still able to more or less homeschool as we liked. I will say that I regret giving up Singapore Math, but other than that, I do NOT regret what virtual schooling did for my DD's writing skills during those years.

    This is partly personality, too-- my daughter is one that WILL NOT work on an area that she sees as a "weakness." She was born a perfectionist. I say that having seen her from birth. She was. So all that homeschooling her in areas of weakness/challenge was really doing was pitting me against her in an unwinnable war.

    Enter virtual school-- she would work on things when "they" wanted her to. Not when I did.

    I'll also state up front that this is an easy route to inclusion in age-appropriate activities outside of your home when your child is HG+. Because they WILL be accelerated in a virtual setting-- and then you can just (truthfully) state that your 8yo is a "fifth grader" and is a public school student when you sign him/her up for some math-related activity.

    Our experience with virtual school from 3rd grade on is that the weaknesses are in STEM-- and that the literacy side of things is superb, at least it was with Connections. At the time-- and this was pre-CC, so who knows, I realize. There are ways around the more bothersome aspects of the system, particularly in those elementary grades.

    I also liked the fact that unlike homeschooling, this prepared my DD to learn to get along and learn from (well, okay-- but hypothetically) a variety of different teachers, and to adjust her work output to meet a particular teacher's preferences. That is a skill that is difficult to teach as a homeschooling parent.

    Virtual school is about credentialing. That's the bottom line, but it has some other pros/cons that are worth looking at.

    The largest "pro" is that it makes acceleration possible without sacrificing so much TIME that it becomes insupportable in light of the child's asynchronous development. I would not have wanted my 10yo to have had the workload of the local high school students I see, and the work was certainly no easier in the virtual setting, but she only required half the time because she wasn't stuck sitting in classrooms all day (inappropriate for a 10yo, IMO-- especially an HG+ one). MOST of the assigned work is never turned in. So you are left to do it if it seems necessary, or skip it if it doesn't. We never did any spelling, for example, because DD didn't need to. I pretested her dutifully each fall, (which she enjoyed, by the way), and she'd blow through the year's words in a few sessions of me giving her the words in funny voices.

    The biggest down-side to a virtual school is low-quality materials and a lack of actual teaching, coupled with an assessment scheme which is, speaking charitably, FUBAR. Again, though-- don't-ask-don't-tell takes care of a WORLD of sins there, and that policy is NOT one which is available in a regular school setting. I'm not actually convinced that virtual is WORSE than what goes into regular classrooms at this point. ALL of the curriculum seems to be deeply flawed or deficient at this point.

    It kind of depends on what your needs are and what your other options are. Is virtual better than homeschooling? Well, no-- but it needn't be mutually exclusive, either, IMO.

    I see a lot of parents who homeschool doing what we did-- wondering how on earth to pin down whether their kids are actually "on ---- grade level" in any particular subject, wondering what on earth that even MEANS... it's really hard to homeschool an HG+ kid in anything like a conventional manner. You wind up seeking outside evaluation all the time, it seems, because they move so fast.

    As to cost-- yes, this was as consideration. My DD, then six, had cost us THOUSANDS to homeschool in just a year of eclectic homeschooling. She would be happy to work on some new curriculum item... for a few weeks, that is. Then she'd start refusing to cooperate. In frustration, I'd try to make her do it, persuade her to try it, etc. etc. Finally, I'd get her to take the "post-test" or whatever it was-- and she'd have made some crazy jump PAST all of it. Yup-- now useless to her as appropriate learning material. eek Amazon knew us by name, I'm sure.

    So virtual school was a good thing those first few years-- because it FORCED her to work on areas where she could not just do that. "Oh, it looks like you've done all of the science for the month-- I guess all you have left is writing. Tell you what, we'll do an experiment when you're done with the language arts for the week, okay?" Oh, sure-- she still read all of her textbooks and novels cover to cover before the end of September each year after the big box showed up, but it did help her develop skills she'd have otherwise ignored in favor of her strengths.

    We also got regular feedback about "level" and she could move through the curriculum at HER pace, and we could add enrichment from the library and other resources as needed.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 615
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 615
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    she would work on things when "they" wanted her to. Not when I did.

    I've got one of those too. Not quite as bad as yours though, I think!

    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 1,898
    I don't know much more than I said, but will pass on a question and bring back the answer if you like! It doesn't sound as though it was the result of special negotiation, but rather, how things are done. She talks about the "charter teacher" so maybe there is a charter school as umbrella organisation somehow? But there definitely isn't a school deciding what will be learned when and how.


    Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    2
    22B Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    2
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    I googled about the California homeschool reimbursement scheme. It appears it works like this. Homeschoolers register with the school district, thereby becoming recognized as student being "taught" by the district. Consequently the district receives $5k per homeschooled student, gives each student $1k, and keeps the other $4k.

    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    Originally Posted by ColinsMum
    I don't know much more than I said, but will pass on a question and bring back the answer if you like! It doesn't sound as though it was the result of special negotiation, but rather, how things are done. She talks about the "charter teacher" so maybe there is a charter school as umbrella organisation somehow? But there definitely isn't a school deciding what will be learned when and how.

    I'd be much obliged! Thanks ColinsMum!


    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    2
    22B Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    2
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    Originally Posted by 22B
    I googled about the California homeschool reimbursement scheme. It appears it works like this. Homeschoolers register with the school district, thereby becoming recognized as student being "taught" by the district. Consequently the district receives $5k per homeschooled student, gives each student $1k, and keeps the other $4k.

    In other words, it's a revenue capturing scheme, that gives the homeschooler some incentive to be involved. Of course, exactly the same thing could be said about virtual schools.

    I would prefer a system that directly funded some homeschooling expenses, without homeschoolers being used as pawns in various schemes to siphon off taxpayer money.

    Joined: Aug 2008
    Posts: 748
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Aug 2008
    Posts: 748
    Originally Posted by 22B
    I googled about the California homeschool reimbursement scheme. It appears it works like this. Homeschoolers register with the school district, thereby becoming recognized as student being "taught" by the district. Consequently the district receives $5k per homeschooled student, gives each student $1k, and keeps the other $4k.


    Depending on the school this is true. However, some homeschool charters maintain an actual school site where the kids can take classes. One we are involved in is a K-8 school, with about 240 students and more than 70 classes from piano, guitar and dance to science, math and a hybrid 2x a week program. Plus field trips, a huge curriculum catalog and lots of choice to use (or not use( that curriculum. PM me if you want more info!

    Joined: Apr 2012
    Posts: 267
    K
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    K
    Joined: Apr 2012
    Posts: 267
    Originally Posted by aquinas
    Originally Posted by ColinsMum
    I have a friend homeschooling in California who, for the imposition of an annual meeting with a teacher (who has apparently been helpful if anything to date; she has had no trouble with using her choice of materials) and doing the standard state tests, gets what sounds like a considerable contribution to the cost of homeschooling. From her experience, that sounds like a sweet spot, which does exist!

    Could you please comment further on what's involved and how she negotiated that arrangement, ColinsMum? It sounds pretty desirable! I can PM you if you'd prefer.

    In California there exist homeschool charter schools. Some reimburse you a certain amount each semester for books, classes, and materials; others will lend books and equipment (e.g. microscope). You are assigned an Education Specialist, who meets with you periodically to make sure you're still on track.

    In return, of course, you need to meet some requirements (e.g. you can't just not do science all year) and take standardized tests in the spring.

    Some of our friends have great ES's who allow them to be more lax about what their kids are doing. Others seem to have to jump through hoops to prove that they're doing enough ELA or science or whatever. No one we know appreciated the standardized tests, but more because of the time it took (not because of the results).

    We chose not to go this route, and we are homeschooling independently. DS8 was so burned by school that we wanted as much freedom in his education as possible. But it's definitely attractive.

    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    2
    22B Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    2
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    Answering various posts:

    DS8 has just started one of the lowest level AoPS on-line courses. He's managing with reading the scrolling plaintext, typing responses, staying focused for the whole lesson, but only just now; I don't think he could have when younger. So "the common view is that the pace of the AOPS on-line courses are too fast for younger kids even the very gifted ones." is somewhat true depending on kid and age, at least for the "live" class. Doing weekly homework is no problem, since one is not under time pressure to respond quickly. Maybe I'll review it in a few months.

    Two people mentioned "Usborne Encyclopedias". I'd never heard of them. I like the idea of children's encyclopedias. DS8 and DD5 will get interested in, and pick up and read, these types of books, as long as they are designed to be attractive to (maybe older) children. Any other suggestions along these lines?

    "... $400 per child...$250 per child..." These numbers are encouraging. I don't mind paying for a well designed curriculum that saves parent and child time (less detailed planning for parent, easily compactible for child) and follows some kinds of standards. Actually I just want this for Math and ELA, and we'll improvise the rest (for elementary school). We mainly want to cover "the three Rs", and really it's writing specifically where we need well designed structured coursework. (We do not need to teach our kindergartners about ancient bloody battles like k12.com's history does.)

    " For elementary age, I think I'd definitely prefer pure homeschooling (indeed, I did!)." That's what I want to hear. Unfortunately when I floated the idea with DW "Let's drop the virtual school and home school instead", her response was along the lines of "How could that even be possible?". So I've got some work to do.


    Joined: Jul 2013
    Posts: 222
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Jul 2013
    Posts: 222

    For the Usborne books,

    http://www.usborne.com/quicklinks/eng/catalogue/catalogue.aspx?area=EN

    (These were cheaper ordering through a friend who sells these with facebook parties)
    Usborne connects the information in the encyclopedias to websites you can visit. The links are noted in the book and each book has a webpage with the links listed.



    Some other helpful sites for discounts on curriculum

    http://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/homeschool-math-curriculum/

    http://www.educents.com/

    For next year with the two kids, they are doing World History, Writing and Science together. Some curriculum save you money by having the same reading but different exercises and expectations for each level. I am going to use SWI B for language, I bought that for the older one but the website provides downloads for the lower level readings for younger kids without cost. For science, I bought everything for the older one and use that as the guide and use workbooks and encyclopedias to go along with the topic that the older one is studying so that my husband is teaching them both at once but their activities and tests are level appropriate. A number of history curricula have exercises for different ages in the same book. For math, one is using dreambox.com and the other is going to use the AoPS textbook on her own with Alcumus. I am not paying for the class.

    Our area has a homeschool consignment store and a couple of facebook pages where people sell used curriculum.


    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    Thanks for the clarification, KnittingMama. Kind of you to reply.


    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    22B, maybe the best approach is to have her come on here and correspond with some of the homeschoolers, or to meet a group of like-minded local homeschoolers. Seeing is believing.


    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 74
    G
    GF2 Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    G
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 74
    Glad you're getting some helpful advice! In terms of money-saving, probably you know about the following already, but I wish I had!

    (1) When you buy books, buy them used on amazon. Sometimes our library doesn't have things, esp. textbooks, and so I buy them used. "Acceptable" quality is usually more than fine for us, and I can buy, say, a $100 textbook for $5. I haven't looked for the Usborne books, but I'll bet you can find those for far less than the bookstore (new) prices.

    (2) Homeschool Buyer's Co-op website. They have a lot of stuff I wouldn't use, but if you've independently identified some kind of software or other program, they often have group discounts. My kids liked BrainPop (web program that has little educational movies), for instance, and the Co-op had a discount.

    (3) EPGY Open Enrollment. If this still exists, it's a great deal, compared to the regular EPGY. You don't get a teacher or a transcript/grade, but you get full access to the software, which at the elementary level is all we wanted. The software tells you how the student is doing, but you just don't get the official EPGY grade record.

    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    2
    22B Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    2
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,228
    Lot's of great advice and info here thanks. I'm looking at EPGY OE for Mathematics and English/ELA. I have questions, but I've decided to split them off to a new thread focused on EPGY.
    http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/195573.html#Post195573


    Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by aeh - 03/27/24 01:58 PM
    Quotations that resonate with gifted people
    by indigo - 03/27/24 12:38 PM
    New, and you'd think I'd have a clue...
    by astronomama - 03/24/24 06:01 AM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 03/23/24 06:11 PM
    Son 2e, wide discrepancy between CogAT-Terranova
    by astronomama - 03/23/24 07:21 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5