Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Separation Anxiety, Sleep issues- need help

So my DS9 has not been able to sleep without someone sitting with him in his room, and every night ends up sleep walking into our room to sleep with us. He has been this way since he was a baby, and we even tried cry it out (as a baby), bribery (worked for a week when he was in kindergarten- now there is no bribery that would work), everything super nanny recommends (including putting him back into his bed, checking on him every 5 minutes), NOTHING works. I can't really talk to anyone else about it as I get the "you aren't being a strong enough parent" talk. My husband knows this is not the case, but anyone else doesn't get it.

Seriously, at night the kid is terrified to be alone, and neither my husband or myself (or my son) like the situation but we don't know what to do about it.

He loves to learn about dangerous and toxic things (like dangerous animals, disasters, poisonous or toxic substances, deadly diseases) which makes things difficult, as while he is fascinated during the day, at night he cannot go to sleep, he is terrified of being alone. He says it is because he is afraid of zombies and vampires, and he knows they don't exist but it doesn't matter. During the day, we will make a plan but at night it all changes. Last night he said the only thing that would work is to take away his closet (this is after we had checked it several times). I explained that nothing can get into the closet, but logic doesn't work.

During the day he also has separation anxiety at home only. I don't think he gets it at school because he is never alone there. Anyway it got so bad at one point that he wouldn't go into any room in the house alone - I had to go with him. My DD7 started catching it from him, so that got pretty bad- we were all going everywhere together. I finally decided to do exposure therapy by giving them points every time they went into a room by themselves, when they got 100 points they got to pick out a toy at target.

This has worked really well, especially with my daughter, but we cannot get my son to go to sleep on his own or to stay in his bed. We are attempting to just get him to go to sleep on his own as while we put him to bed at 8-8:30 he will not fall asleep until 10-10:30 and so my husband and I end up sitting in the hallway for 2 hours and get no adult time together.

The person who assessed him for giftedness confirmed he is HG, but said he has anxiety which made his processing speed very low. I'm sure poor sleep habits also figure into it. Has anyone had this problem, and what did you do? The assessor says I can bring him in to her for therapy but she is $$$ and we tried it a little bit already and the thing that has worked is what I came up with (the points system).

Additional information- when I was a kid I had the same problem, I loved dramatic and tragic things like Pompeii etc. that would not bother me during the daytime but as soon as it would get dark I would start imagining the tragedy and get really freaked out. The darkness always made everything magnified.

In addition, the assessor said he has anxiety at school which is why he zones out. Back story on this is that about one third of the kids were picking on him as he sucks on his fingers and (yuk) picks his nose in class -which I take to be a way of handling anxiety- but I spoke to him this morning and he said he never feels anxious or scared in class, just angry if someone teases him or if the teacher yells at him.

I handled the nose picking by taking him to the allergist and he got allergy meds which has helped tremendously. At the teacher's suggestion we got him chewing gum to help with the fidgeting and the finger sucking, this also helped.

Anyway, any thoughts?

Things that have helped our sleep walker:
Music, bedtime reading together, plenty of pillows, getting a new mattress, checking vents in his room to make sure temperature is fine, talking/coaching about lucid dreaming and being in charge of his dreams.

Some ideas:

Redecorate his room with his help and use some cool nighttime light features. I am thinking of something like a lava lamp, aquarium, art using dark blue/green Christmas lights.

Would it help if the kids slept in the same room? That and having the top bunk helped me at that age. Maybe set up one room for sleeping and clothes storage and the other for playing/media.

I know a family who frequently have one kid on the love seat in the master bedroom and one kid in the dog bed with the dog on the floor! They don't put them there, they just find them in the morning.

Maybe giving him a flashlight in his bed or let him set up a small tent in his room for sleeping. Maybe since a tent hides you while you sleep, he'd feel less afraid.

Just some ideas.

I had horrible nighttime fears well into my 20s. For me rational dismissals didn't help, because the fear itself was not rational. In fact, rational dismissals made me more upset because it was ignoring my fear, which was very real to me. I needed a cell phone I could call for help on, a window I could potentially climb out of, etc. so that I knew I could get help if I needed it.

I went though some therapy that helped me recognize the feeling of anxiety earlier and earlier. If I could catch it early enough, then I could apply some strategies before it spiraled out of control. This was mainly helpful during waking hours, but decreasing my overall anxiety helped lessen the general anxiety I took to bed with me.

I hope you find some help. I know this is terrible for both of you!

Thanks all - MON was the SSRI for sleep walking or night time fears or both? Which SSRI?

KathrynH did you do cognitive therapy? The assessor says she doesn't think cognitive therapy will work for him, I can't remember why.

KJP- he has two fishtanks in his room, I don't think redecorating will do it somehow but I will try anything at this point. He does have a nightlight and we keep the regular lights turned down low. I have a boy and a girl and they did share a room until they both wanted their own rooms when my daughter was about 3 or 4.

I was hoping the allergy medicine might help with the sleep walking but he's still doing it - it's a habit I guess. Someone else I know tried biofeedback which appeared to work for her PG kid, but I think he went to bed fine to begin with.

DD11 was a terrible sleeper from birth and all the things we tried sound a lot like all the things you tried. So I am hugely sympathetic and know how hard this is. I also understand how unsympathetic other people can be. So I hope you take my suggestion in the spirit of that sympathy and not as judgement.

Children often love things that are not good for them (sugar!) or that may not be good for them at a certain time in their life. We do very little sheltering or censoring of DD in any way... except when we see an obvious correlation between something she's doing and some unpleasant result. That's why she's not allowed to watch Disney TV anymore. Because there was a direct correlation between the amount she watched and how bratty and smartmouthed she would then be.

Recently she had a huge anxiety attack in the night. She was fearful because she was reading a ghost story before bed and after the lights went out her imagination ran away with her and she panicked. The story was fine in the daytime, but became too much after dark. And it didn't help that she'd been staying up very late several nights reading and then waking up cranky.

The next night I didn't let her read after a certain time and insisted on lights out. She slept good and woke up happy. And we talked a bit about how sometimes we need to do the thing that's less fun (like not reading and going to bed early) to make ourselves happier... that what we want is not always what's best for us or what will actually make us happy in the end.

If you believe the source of the night fears are the scary topics he learns during the day, then I would firmly restrict and redirect those interests to other areas for now. I suggest going cold turkey for a while -- no vampires, no toxins, no news in front of the kids. No scary shows or books or even game play. Stick to flowers and puppies and stories of kindness for a while (even if you all start to get cavities). See if it makes a difference.

This may help you decide if the anxiety is source specific or more generalized, which could help you make treatment decisions down the road. It also focuses the effort and attention on the day time and not in the night (when emotions run high and no one is feeling rational or happy). It also seems like asking him to change his reading for a while is something he can actually do. Whereas asking a child not to be afraid isn't really a fair request.

It could even be that you couple the change in mental source material with additional night nurturing. So he has to quit researching ebola (bummer!), but he gets to put a sleeping bag next to mom and dad's bed for a while.

I have a much younger cosleeping son, and he has sensory issues that prevent him from falling asleep if he isn't touching me. (As I type this on my iphone, he is draped across me asleep.) He has a double bed so that I can snuggle him until he falls asleep, then I slip away to spend time with my husband for a few hours in our room (just a few feet away) until DS wakes, at which point I rejoin DS.

Have you ever tried snuggling to sleep as an extension of sitting with him? It's such a lovely, gentle way to ease an anxious/sensory child to sleep, and I know from personal experience that the cuddles are a wonderful way to reconnect after a busy day and build the emotional side of your relationship. The warmth, pressure from contact, and rhythm of your breathing...it helps drown out other sensory stimuli. A full body pillow and heated blanket can simulate that contact after you slip away.

When I was your son's age, my dad used to wrap me up like a burrito and give me gentle head rubs until I (or he!) fell asleep, which I always loved.

Another option might be to listen to some beautiful music or do a guided relaxation exercise together in your DS' room while snuggling. Aromatherapy--maybe doing a gentle hand or foot rub with lavender scented cream, or sprinkling some lavender oil on the pillowcase, might provide a sensory cue to relax.

Another idea might be to create a "safe" sleep zone for your son in your bedroom, if you're comfortable with that, with a small separate mattress or sleeping bag--in a tent for added fun! (I can appreciate how many people might prefer to keep a master bedroom child-free, too.)

ETA: As a final note, don't discount the value of tryptophan-rich foods as a way to prime your son for sleep. A zinc and magnesium supplement can also support sleep hormones and promote relaxation.

I also like Ivy's idea of a scary material purge as an experiment.

Ivy, we have purged scary things in the past but nothing really works to fix it - it just gets worse when he reads scary stuff. Even if everything is fine he won't go to sleep (or even stay in his bed) if we aren't in the room or in the hallway. If in the hallway he calls out to make sure we are still there. Aquinas he definitely would sleep better if he is touching me (and that's what he does when we are co-sleeping) but cuddling to sleep ends up with him waking the minute I move to go out. Substitutes not acceptable. Also, if we do that, then he starts staying awake because he is afraid the moment he closes his eyes that we will leave.

It depends how desperate you are. I stayed in bed because I was more afraid of my father than the images in my head. He was fine with the odd incident and sympathetic to nightmares but he wouldn't have tolerated fusses at bed time. When my grandmother babysat and there was no-one taking in the lounge I called out occasionally and asked if she could cough from time to time.

Ds5 has trouble falling asleep but his room is off the lounge so I let him have the door part open an go in and give him a cuddle occasionally.

I would stick with the purge. As an adult I simply don't read ir watch things that will cause nightime fears if I am in a sensitive period. And SSRIs do seem to prevent dreaming although it may be they just prevent the stress dreams that wake you up in a panic. I forgot to take mine for 5 days lately and started having dreams where my kids died.

My daughter has some of these issues (though milder) as she has grown despite being a great sleeper early on. A few months ago she started waking every night at 2:30am and trying to come into bed with us. She was terrified and shaking but never really could say why. We made alot of improvement by moving her younger sister into her room. Initially they slept in the same bed but eventually we just moved both beds in there and the other room is the "playroom" for now. We also realized that one of DD6's best friends was a boy that loves scary stuff and liked to tell her things that would spook her. We already limited scary media knowing that she was sensitive. I also wanted to mention a CD that DD loves. I think we bought it just before she started kindergarten as we were seeing more anxiety (chewing habits etc). At first she used it a little but in the past year she has used it nearly every night. It is basically a guided relaxtion imagery CD. As long as she has her nightlights, the hall light, her animals and her CD she is usually fine. It is by Charlotte Resnik and called Discover your Special place or something like that.

My DW provided child care for a neighbor's kid whose sleep needs were similar to what aquinas describes. The child's needs kept escalating over time, though, until putting the child to sleep became a living nightmare for any parent or caregiver involved. DW got to choose between a screaming 3yo or extreme back pain (snuggling wasn't an option at this point, he had to be carried/held/bounced), and usually she was rewarded with both. DW had to stop babysitting him because the child was literally killing her.

YMMV, but there's a cautionary tale there for allowing childhood insecurities to break down normal boundaries.

Coveln, a friend gave me a CD like that I will try it. I think it was Indigo something.

Dude, with my DD7 I worked very hard to put her on a sleep schedule, etc. and she was fine for a long time, but we had a lot of trouble with DS9 beginning very early in life. Now she has caught whatever he had although it's not quite as bad.

This is one of the many reasons I love breastfeeding--it gives us an enjoyable way to for me to comfort DS to sleep (along with providing a nutritious pre-bed snack!) without any drama or discomfort. I literally lie down with DS and snuggle nurse him to sleep. Then I get up and go snuggle my big sweetie! Easy peasy!

We've had the opposite experience of the family you describe, Dude, in that DS' sleep needs have simplified and diminished over time, probably due to a combination of physical maturation and cumulative positive sleep associations

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LAF, this is a woo-woo unscientific suggestion, but I listen to ASMR sound videos on YouTube to fall asleep sometimes and they are brilliant. My untested opinion is that the calming response is a type of auditory-tactile synaesthesia. If your son is at all interested, it might be worth a try.

does he suffer from night terrors? I did, I grew out of them at about 15).

The combination of night terrrors, a vivid imagination and scary material is a perfect storm for anxiety. I used to read horror stories during the day and be a complete basket case at night having full blown hallucinations. I still don't look out the window at night in case I see piggy eyes looking at me a la Amityville, or look in the mirror after washing my hands at night.

Maybe see a sleep specialist, I believe there are drugs and therapies now to help, also just coping techniques. If it is terrors, the fear is real. People say that you can't remember them but it is not true, 20 years on, I still remember my scariest hallucinations and my parents reaction of punishing me for turning on the light. If you sort out the night problems, hopefully the day time issues should resolve.

I really feel for you - my daughter has had trouble falling asleep since she was a baby. It can be really rough! I used to spend hours and hours trying to get her to sleep or nap. :-( Fortunately, she's better now (at 9 yrs old). She goes to sleep on her own (most nights) and sleeps in her own room all night. (My 6 yr old ds is another story...)

She doesn't have the same level of anxiety as your child, but here are some things that worked for us...
We let her go to bed later - we eventually realized that she's a night owl. Trying to make her go to bed when the sleep books said she should was just an exercise in frustration. She gets ready for bed at the same time as DS but then we let her read (or draw or whatever) for a set time. Lights out is around 9:30 - 9:45 pm. By then she's tired enough that she (usually) falls asleep quickly. So even if one of us does end up sitting with her (rare these days), it's not for long.

My husband also taught her progressive relaxation and I think she still uses this sometimes when she's wound up for some reason. Oh - and she also uses sleep sounds (rain, waves - there are a few free Android apps that have this).

For the night waking - I don't have suggestions (my DS still does this), but I like the idea of trying a separate bed or mattress in your room.

Good luck. I have found with sleep issues that they do typically improve over time (although it doesn't always feel like it).

With our eldest DS we experienced night terrors and a hyper active mind that simply could NOT shut off. What actually ended up doing the most good was simply doing whatever we could to wear him out in the evening. Swimming, trampoline, soccer, etc. Sometimes we focus so much on our gifted kid's need for intellectual needs that we forget they're KIDS full of energy that needs a positive outlet. If we don't fulfill that need, there is a good chance sleep will evade such an active body and mind.

Have you talked with your DS about this issue in a calm, non-confrontational, matter-of-fact manner? I talk with my DS about these kinds of things as they appear as it's always good to get his perspective on it.

We do a few different things, depending on the situation:

1) Burrito-wrap.
DS8 still loves to be wrapped in his favorite blanket from time to time, especially when he is anxious about something. The snug sensation eases his fears and the burrito-wrap gives him an implied permission to regress a bit to when life was easy (as a baby.)

2) Favorite song.
I will snuggle him and sing his favorite song twice. Having a routine helps him immeasurably to settle down and get ready for sleep.

3) Bedroom time.
a) DS8 and I hang out in his bedroom during the day sometimes, doing stuff. It's a more comfortable environment if he's in it during the day.

b) We don't have bedtime; we have bedroom time. Bedroom time starts at 8PM; he may do anything he likes in his room as long as I don't see (no coming out to the living room) or hear him (no loud racket). I don't control when he will sleep; only he can do that.

4) Lights.
We usually leave his light on in his room; if I do turn off his light, I turn on the hall light as I have vivid memories of the gorilla in my closet.