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DD10 is a...funky child with no diagnosis, but some ASD/ADHD traits. (She's odd in that nothing fits her all that well, but we try to focus on the issues we see and address them as needed.) As she ages, we are noticing more conversational deficits, particularly with adults. (She is socially very popular with peers. This is part why nothing fits.) In particular, she has poor eye contact and does not give the impression that she is an interested listener, even when she is. She also is slow to respond/answer, even when she wants to--conversational timing is off. Again, this is much worse with adults and especially with adults she does not know well. Give and take is poor. She does not monologue (no obsessive interests) and at times she can sort of "light up" and be very interactive, responsive and conversational--I have no idea why this sometimes happens but more often does not. She is much more responsive to us, but still has poor eye contact and is prone to non sequiturs.

I believe some of this is age appropriate, but some of it is definitely an issue for her. I would like tips from others (probably this would be parents of kids who have ASD, ADHD, or perhaps language pragmatics problems?--she might have that a little) on ways to work on this. The eye contact one is an interesting one. I am not sure how much to insist on it. She IS usually listening, even though she appears not to be. But the impression she gives to adults is poor. I should also note that she is NOT shy, even though this makes her sound it. I am not sure why this is so much worse with adults, but I think it's partly that she is not that invested in relationships with them.

She is highly sensitive to being "talked down to," so we must tread carefully. Also, she is extremely anxious about the idea that there is anything "wrong" with who she is or how she conducts herself.

My ds with DCD and expressive language disorder had similar issues with conversational language, especially eye contact. He is slow to respond/answer at times (not always) and that's related to his DCD (DCD and ASD have overlapping traits in this and some other areas). Like your dd, he isn't shy and he can be actively and obviously engaged in some conversations at some times - but if you look closely you can see clues re when he's able to freely converse vs when conversations are going to be more halting and delayed etc.

What helped our ds was Speech Therapy that was directed at conversational skills and specifically worked on things like eye contact etc. In some ways his SLP approached it in a very scientific, almost mathematical way which resonated with ds. Having the instruction come from someone other than a parent who was always saying "look at me!" was helpful too.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I think I didn't know that there was speech therapy that worked on these particular issues. That's good to be aware of. How did you get him diagnosed? I'm not opposed to a diagnosis--it's just that DD has already been screened/tested for a few things and always passes. We end up looking sort of crazy. She's very good at acing tests of all kinds, even when those skills are not great in real life. If she KNOWS it counts, she will tune in, because she is aware of the stakes. But in many situations, it's like...child, are you on Neptune right now? (Yet she has no problems in school--completes assignments on time, hands in all HW, does not lose things...in a school program where many peers are struggling with these tasks.)

Just to make her even harder to spot, DD's verbal IQ is 99th% and she is a fantastic and prolific writer. But something breaks down in certain conversational settings, for sure.

Sometimes it helps not to force them to make actual eye contact. One of mine is uncomfortable with too much of that, so I've suggested looking at some other part of the face (eyebrow, nose, glasses frame), because the majority of people will not be able to tell that you are not actually looking them in the eye, but you won't feel quite as exposed (or whatever it is that bothers them about eye contact).

We talk explicitly about how body language communicates specific messages to your conversational partner; we don't want our body language (including eye contact, fidgeting, open/closed stance) to contradict our words, as that may communicate dishonesty or insincerity. We also discuss the value of conversational fillers as a means to buy time for formulating your response, so that your conversational partner knows that you heard what they said and will respond when you have something to say.

She has explained that if a conversation is intense or emotional, eye contact makes it hard for her to focus on what is being said. She usually needs something to fidget with in these situations, too. I am okay with this for now, as long as I feel she is still attending to me. But in casual conversation, there seems to be something else going on. She is highly visual/artistic/detail-oriented, and gives that as a reason ("I like to look around and notice things"). I don't know if it's really that, which sounds ADHD, or if it's discomfort-- more on the ASD side.

I have definitely talked with her about the messages body language sends. The irony is that if I pose for her, or give her little online social-skills cards/scenarios to look at, she can "read" them and pass them just fine. She can say, "Yeah, if you do that you look like you're listening, and if you do that you looks like you don't care." But if I ASK her, "Do YOU personally care or notice if someone doesn't look at you when you talk?", she's like "Mennh...not unless it's really extreme and I can tell they're not paying attention." She has a surface understanding of what is expected but is not bought in.

Fillers are a good thing to bring up. I don't know if I've talked to her about that. Head nodding--I should talk about that.

Does she have the same issues with eye contact when sitting down? Disparate heights between adults and children can make children uncomfortable and feel inferior when trying to maintain eye contact.

I'll project some of my personal experience, in case my lens rings true for her:
A highly aware visual person can get overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of often contradictory information that comes from another person. Some adults have poor performance control when dealing with kids such that their non-verbals and verbal content are completely out of whack such that looking at them while they speak is a bit disgusting (closest word that comes to mind.)

The delays and such particularly with strange adults may be a very introspective overthinking thing where she is aware of tone of conversation, content, what impression she is creating, norms for behavior as expected by adults. She may need the additional focus to form an appropriate response that conveys the right level of conversation for the audience. If you are also seeing this, there may be a performance component so she is seeking a tone and content that maintains consistency with the social face she presents to you as well as finding a negotiated level.

Other delays can come from trying to be polite and finding the right transition moment and make sure someone isn't just taking a long pause.

Her default level around other kids may be her best practiced social face. The unfettered blurting thoughts and such may mean she is working as close to natural as can be.

Other factors I find with watching someone's face when they are speaking is sometimes I get really distracting feedback delay loops (ever tried listening to your voice on a half second delay through earphones while speaking?) And sometimes it is a distracting detail in their face.

But if a speaker wants my undivided attention, then it's best I not look while they speak.

My personal work-around is to make sure I use very active listening skills like nodding or verbal tiks and asking strong, insightful summative questions.

My DS 15 has similar issues. He is also currently not labeled with anything, but we are looking into expressive language disorders. (There are other problems.) He doesn't really quite fit an ASD diagnosis. Talking with adults he doesn't know well is a struggle. I know that he often listens better if he he doesn't have to be looking straight at you. One great place for conversation is in the car. But I have insisted that not looking at people when they are talking with you is considered IMPOLITE. He insists that looking at another person has nothing to do with if you are listening or not and even insisted on doing his 6th grade science project on the topic. He tried testing to see if the direction you were looking, affected how well you heard a word.

Several things have helped, and maturity seems to be one of them. When my son was in 6th & 7th grade he did a social skills group with a bunch of other boys his age, most of whom where either ASD or ADHD. He did get better for a while, but has been having problems again recently. At this point we are taking him to a pyc. whom deals with gifted kids and are planning on getting him formally tested him this summer.

What Zen wrote!

Yes, some news reporters and tv personalities exhibit this emotional discontinuity as well, which provides a great resource in discussing this concept with kiddos.

Have you noticed, a similar effect can occur when one is in the speaking role of a conversation: looking directly at the conversation partner for too long a time may cause the processing of the visual input to override one's train of thought, limiting speaking ability.

Helpful for both conversation partners!

bluemagic, just wondering if it helps your son understand that in some cases, it may be a necessity to look at someone. I depend a lot on lip-reading in conversations especially face-to-face and I will tell my co-workers to move their hands/cup/whatever is blocking their mouths and look at me especially if their voices are not easy for me to understand. It has nothing to do with whether the other person is listening, but rather allows me to follow what the other person is saying and not have to ask them to repeat themselves as much. When the person's face/mouth is not visible, sometimes I can not even tell whether he has stopped talking or started talking - much less always understand what the person is saying.