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    #192947 - 06/01/14 04:48 AM Re: skills acceleration [Re: slammie]
    madeinuk Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/13
    Posts: 1453
    Loc: NJ
    Originally Posted By: slammie
    good luck with getting into DYS! I hope good news is heading your way.
    I don't have much to add since we are just starting go down the rapid learning path ourselves but I keep hearing the "don't accelerate too much, you don't want DD at a place where there is nothing left to teach" mantra at school.
    I'm also seeing very rapid trajectory of growth in our DD. But like you, DH and I decided against advocating for a grade skipping even though this is what we originally thought was best for DD, simply because they would have to continue to subject accelerate anyway.

    I have a question re: singapore math. Do you buy the text books for your DS or just the practice and challenge word problems? I purchased the textbook for DD last summer and I found I didn't need it. TIA.


    We went for a skip for social reasons primarily. And we had heard about a 4th grade teacher who had had gifted kids herself so was exactly the right fit at a critical juncture. There was a lot of puerile girly drama that our DD escaped by jumping ahead into a cadre of girls who enjoyed reading some of the books our DD had already read and had already gone through that phase. IMO, a single acceleration will never address our kids' capacity to learn and we ourselves will not be doing another one unless acutely indicated.

    Instead, we have taken our DD to kid enrichment activities at a local university ( again for social reasons - and thank God because she finally met a girl like her there) and also we have allowed her to grow her reading and Maths independently.

    I have never understood a teacher impeding progress by not letting a kid read whatever the heck they want to read within obvious age-appropriate content driven bounds.
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    #192955 - 06/01/14 09:40 AM Re: skills acceleration [Re: cammom]
    22B Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/10/13
    Posts: 1228
    Originally Posted By: cammom
    We don't have a lot on math except the WJIII achievement that is placing him 8+ years above grade level and in the 99.99 percentile. Caveat: I've heard that the WJIII may be scoring a bit high in math for younger kids, and I'm sure that there are learning gaps.

    I'm one who's said I think the scoring comes out high, e.g. in your earlier thread.
    giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/187603/Woodcock_Johnson_III_Achieveme.html

    But in any case, a score of 145+ (in math) indicates that multi year acceleration is warranted (in math). If your school won't do it, you'll have to figure out how to do it yourself (and there are many good suggestions in this thread).

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    #192959 - 06/01/14 11:26 AM Re: skills acceleration/Singapore math [Re: aeh]
    greenlotus Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/17/14
    Posts: 582
    What would you suggest if we were starting mid grade school level on Singapore Math? Are we going to find that there are concepts we don't get because we didn't start from the beginning? I was going to give the kids the assessment and then order both the work and text books.

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    #192965 - 06/01/14 12:50 PM Re: skills acceleration/Singapore math [Re: greenlotus]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3993
    I would definitely start from the assessment, and pay attention to any items they get wrong, because it may be that you will be able to give them a quick lesson on one or two points, and then move to the next level. I would not worry too much about coming in in the middle. There is a certain amount of slow spiraling in SM (although always at a qualitatively higher level). I started with 2B for my #1, and k for my #2. I did notice that it was easier for #2, having previous familiarity with the teaching style, but in terms of gaps, there was no issue starting with 2B for #1. (Plus, I think #2 is more naturally math-minded, anyway.) My sibling's child, if I recall, began with 3B or 4A, (coming out of a very traditional drill-and-kill curriculum) and settled into it after a brief adjustment period.

    One of the patterns I noticed about Primary Math was that every grade started off with place value, which allowed for a very brief review of the basic arithmetic taught up to that point, mixed in with increasing amounts of mental math, which helped to keep the review-ish material from being boring, as the mental math tricks were kind of fun (if you like math tricks, which I do). Of course, these topics are placed there largely to combat summer losses; since we school year-round, our kids usually zipped through the first couple of units.

    Another aspect I like is the subtle review of skills through the following several units, by writing practice problems that are ostensibly for a new topic, but have review of past skills woven into them.

    All this to say, although of course it is always easiest to begin and end with the same curriculum, I think that, after the initial adjustment period (mostly to the pedagogical/problem solving approach), it will work out fine to begin with the middle grades material.

    And to an earlier post: I would agree that it's possible to use only the textbook, as it has problem sets in it also, just not the occasional little fun puzzles or coloring math pages. You just have to use your own paper; my kiddos liked the workbook style.
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    #193438 - 06/04/14 03:58 PM Re: skills acceleration [Re: cammom]
    Kam Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 06/04/14
    Posts: 2
    We are new to accelerated learning. Our DD7 has learned roughly 2 years of math this year. She's in a program for gifted kiddos but seems to have outpaced the others in her class in math. We have been meeting with the school to figure out what is best. We do not want her with kids that are 2-3 years older but there is no one in her class ready for 4th grade math.

    As a side note, she began working on an online math group because her teacher was having difficulty keeping her challenged

    I am really hoping for some ideas

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    #193566 - 06/05/14 02:44 PM Re: skills acceleration [Re: Kam]
    Quantum2003 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/08/11
    Posts: 1432
    Maybe I am reading your post incorrectly but I am not sure why at this point she would need to be with kids who are 2-3 years older rather than just 1 year older in your current gifted program. Since she is already 7, I am assuming that she must be going into at least 2nd grade in the fall so the 4th grade math would be at most 2 years ahead. If she is in a program with gifted kids who are presumably at least a little advanced themselves and has outpaced the other gifted kids by one year, it may be best to simply accelerate her by one year in the same gifted program so that she does math with kids who are one year older. In our district, acceleration is not allowed unless the student is advanced enough to be accelerated into the gifted program, which works one year ahead with enrichment. You definitely don't want your DD to end up in a regular class with mediocre or poor students who are 2-3 years older.

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    #193570 - 06/05/14 03:08 PM Re: skills acceleration [Re: cammom]
    Quantum2003 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/08/11
    Posts: 1432
    "Skills acceleration" is quite normal for GT kids. Part of the problem is that elementary levels are rather arbitrarily divided into 6 levels (K-5). Both my 5th graders jumped several grade levels in a single year in reading in early elementary. DS probably jumped about a half dozen reading levels in less than a year while DD jumped about four reading levels within that time frame.

    I am sure that your DS is really ahead in math, but I would not conclude that he is 8+ years ahead based on WJIII "grade equivalents" because their standards appear much much lower than standards/curriculum at decent schools. Personally I have to say that the WJII spits out rather goofy grade equivalents unless you have a child who is within a standard deviation either way. You have to ask yourself whether your 1st (or 2nd?) grader is ready for the 9th grade (or 10th?) math curriculum in your district. If not, then start at a level where your DS has clearly mastered all the standards. Many districts provide online an overview of the curriculum/objectives for each grade. Start at the next grade up until you find where your DS places, then approach the school for assessments to qualify for an acceleration a grade lower than where you think his knowledge/skills end.

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    #193580 - 06/05/14 05:00 PM Re: skills acceleration [Re: cammom]
    mykids Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/29/13
    Posts: 75
    I think a lot of the good academic resources have been well covered, so I will not repeat them. I will say, we did run into a "hitch" if you will around the end of 3rd grade in which peers and sports played a larger role than I would have anticipated. As much as he wanted to continue to be extremely accelerated, he also wanted to be in class and play sports with peers. I will spare you the multi-year saga, but I would examine the personality of your child and determine whether he is a kid who is happily "defined by" engaging in academics alone or if he is into sports, peers, art etc. as well. This may play a role in how you continue to accelerate and decide whether to go "broader" or "deeper" in his academics.

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    #193683 - 06/06/14 12:45 PM Re: skills acceleration [Re: Quantum2003]
    Kam Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 06/04/14
    Posts: 2
    She just turned 7 and is technically going into 2nd grade. The kiddos in the 3rd grade are not working a year ahead. They are given 3rd grade math "with more meat on it". The kiddos moving into 4th rade math are 9-10ish. DD is working at various levels in various subjects, its only math that is higher, so she could not be moved a full year ahead. Some parts of her math -like geometry are farther ahead. Her teacher really struggled this year because unless DD is constantly challenged, she may or may not complete the work.

    The school is not sure if she should be in the higher math because she wont always do the work in class. My feeling is that if they want her to do thenwork she will need to be challenged and be in a reasonable peer group.

    Friends have suggested partially homeschooling her, others have said a hybrid of in class and online. For homeschooling, her school is 1 of 2 here that will accept students of her age- its 20 miles from our house 1 way. So we would need to work it out carefully. And. I feel it is good for her to be with peers.
    Thanks

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    #193698 - 06/06/14 01:36 PM Re: skills acceleration [Re: cammom]
    Ivy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/08/14
    Posts: 337
    Originally Posted By: cammom

    Any "been there, done that" parents? What are your experiences with your kids who test so far out of grade level? Especially down the road when they get to 3rd or 4th grade? I keep waiting for DS to slow down a bit, and instead he seems to be getting faster. I'm excited for him, but I'm getting a bit anxious about whether "regular" school can meet his needs in the long term.


    (Warning: cynicism alert) The reason schools think that gifted kids slow down or level off later in grade school is because by that point they've managed to bore the advanced kids into a stupor. So it can be a real outcome... but the question is whether it's the desired outcome. Any school or teacher who said such a thing to me would raise a major red flag. Because what I hear is "we do such a terrible job with our brightest kids that they end up looking average."

    We pulled DD (then 9) out of regular school* and into an environment where she could go at the pace that made sense for her and she's been flying ever since. At this point she (now 11) will be in her first high school classes in the fall and a community college class the year after.

    This is what schools are really afraid of when they argue against acceleration by complaining they won't have anything to teach in the following years.

    * Well, it was an accelerated magnet, but operated very much in regular school mode.


    Edited by Ivy (06/06/14 01:54 PM)
    Edit Reason: Added note for accuracy

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