Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional DD and writing

DD is in third grade and has combined type ADHD. Her fine motor skills and writing fluency aren't the greatest. On the WJ achievement she scored an 89 for writing fluency, 100 for handwriting, 115 or 120 for writing samples, and maybe 112 for spelling. I don't remember the exact numbers. She was a lot higher for reading and math. The psych who assessed her said she doesn't have dysgraphia since none of those numbers are below the average range. I still don't have a report. I don't know if I agree since her IQ is so high and there is a large discrepancy.
Does anyone have experience with WJ achievement scores being average but there still being dysgraphia or "disorder of written expression"? In my state a child can get an IEP for learning disabilities if there is a 1.75 standard deviation between their IQ and achievement scores, but it's really just handwriting and writing fluency where we would see a gap that large. Her overall writing score wouldn't be a big enough gap (although I don't have a Broad Writing Score, I'm just making a guess).

DD now has a long term sub who is going to be there the rest of the year. The sub has been complaining about her and said that for writing in the morning she will write 2 sentences and the other kids write 1-2 pages. The teacher will tell them to write about a certain topic or put a "starter sentence" on the board along with an ending sentence. DD says that she has no idea what to write or how to construct a story that makes any sense with a prescribed starting and ending. She thinks it will be dumb, so simply does not do anything at all. She thinks she would do better typing but is scared to ask the teacher. I have mentioned it a couple times in emails that DD would probably do better typing, and those comments were dismissed.
DD seems to have the hardest time with fictional stories. This doesn't really surprise me since she has never really played "pretend" so why would she be able to write pretend. I think she has a really hard time organizing her thoughts. Is there a graphic organizer of some sort that could help her construct a fictional story that has to start and end with certain sentences? I see graphic organizers but they mostly have to do with essays, research papers, and that sort of thing. Not creative writing. She's creative but it comes out in different ways, like things that she constructs or how she solves problems. She has a somewhat large gap between non-verbal and verbal IQ and is probably a visual-spatial thinker.

Dh talked to the writing teacher she has in the afternoon and he thinks she's pretty average in terms of writing, but her verbal answers to questions are superior to most of the other kids. He sees her as being slow but a deep thinker. I don't think she's as bad in his class (maybe because her meds are kicked in by that time). But he said that she does often struggle to get started on things or figure out what to write about.

DD8 doesn't enjoy writing (penmanship is "quick and sloppy," and she uses 1000x as many words when she talks as compared with when she has to write). Her school, however, is a very "technology-rich" environment. She is already typing as much as, or almost as much, as she is writing. She seems to prefer to type. Does your DD do better when she is able to type? Could an iPad or other tablet be utilized?

Yes! My DS is pretty severely dysgraphic in my opinion and always seems to come out average on those tests. They are testing him again for disorder of written expression at school and this time they are giving him the Bender Gestalt, Test of Handwriting Skills, Process Assessment of the learner and TOWL. I am not sure about those achievement tests picking up on disorder of written expression or if the schools do not want to identify the disorder. Last year the psych told me DS scored average on one to hose tests and that he had written a beautiful paragraph for her. I was shocked but did realize that DS will kill himself to perform for a tests but not be able to keep that up so I figured that s what happened. When I asked DS a few month later, he said the paragraph was "completely illegible." So I asked to see the actual paragraph he had written and then the school said they did not keep a copy. Our school seems really keen on NOT identifying the disorder and I am not sure why. I also find that if they can, they will try to blame writing difficulties on ADHD (again just my experience but when I tried to get Disorder of Written Expression identified by the school last year they did a lot of tests for ADHD and not so many for written expression and then casually mentioned that ADHD meds do help writing. Not sure if they had bad intent on that or if that all was a coincidence. This year I told them firmly and explicitly in writing that I don't want them giving rating scales and nepsy tests and adhd type tests, I want him given tests that will show whether he has disorder of written expression - Towl, Test of Handwriting Skills, Bender-Gestalt, etc.

MAster of None - will PM for tests info, also - if that is okay? I want to make sure the tests they give my DS are specifically for picking up disorder of written expression and not something else.

Coding I think was a 8 (and that was after I told her to go as fast as possible on the WISC for timed sections, since I knew she would be slow). The BOT2 which is for motor skills had scores that were around 25th percentile for the sections that were timed. She does well for visual-motor integration but can't remember if she had the Beery. I will ask the OT when we go in (she started OT for executive functioning issues and is doing IM therapy).
I know that she scored high enough for fine motor and handwriting that it's not approved with our insurance. They qualified her with the BRIEF.
Not sure what to do at this point. I can't get a diagnosis of a LD with scores in the average range. And the two teachers working with her say conflicting things. One says she does fine and the other seems somewhat melodramatic.

She is switching schools in the fall and I am crossing everything that they have decent special ed people. Does anyone have any other suggestions for tests? I am going to write all of this down. The WJ seems to be a ridiculous test to give kids who are gifted, in order to find disabilities. DS has a PI IEP and tested above the 80th percentile on every single subtest. But the writing he was doing in class looked like a preschooler did it.

She types a lot in writing class on an online program but I'm really not sure how it compares to what she is doing on paper. She never brings any work home in terms of writing. Dh asked to see her journals when he talked to the writing teacher, but they were in a different room and there was no access to it when he was there. I think if nothing else typing would force her to use both sides of her brain. And she hates handwriting. She REALLY wants to type but the classroom teachers have both been old ladies, very old-school, and they just don't seem to get it. Her current teacher (sub) is actually retired and I don't know why she took this job. She says it's the most difficult class she's ever had and is really crabby. DD may be doing better with the writing teacher since he lets them do a lot of work on the computer.

blackcat - sent you a pm

Dysgraphic DS13 has the same problem with composing that you describe. He has always struggled with finding words to write but has profound insights verbally. This written/verbal disparity makes most teachers assume that he is lazy and disinterested.

Yesterday I was scribing an English assignment for him in which he had to compose a sentence using a grammar rule (colon; possessive; correct use of numerals, etc.) This assignment should take about 5 minutes but he really struggled! "Okay, just think of any sentence with a possessive. Anything." (Me waiting, pen poised, for 2 minutes.) "Just name a possessive. Any one. Then put it in a sentence." Still nothing for about a minute, then finally, a simple sentence. We did this about 10 times. It's hard to believe that simple drafting is so difficult for him but it truly is.

I think the drafting struggle is probably more a product of his expressive language disorder and by his extremely slow word retrieval speed. The expressive language deficit was identified in his recent CAPD testing and the low "rapid naming" was revealed in dyslexia testing (the CTOPP.) DS' rapid naming was in the 1st percentile for speed!

I think both DS' slow word retrieval and expressive language issues cause a logjam for writing that is only exacerbated by the struggle to physically write.

I suspected that DS was dyslexic as well as dysgraphic but I never dreamed he had an auditory processing deficit (which is related to expressive language problems), mainly because he has super sensitive ears. Do you have any concerns about auditory processing of ryour DD? Or dyslexia? The slow speed you reference could be related to very slow or inefficient word retrieval that underpins dyslexia. The signs of dyslexia for gifted kids are dysgraphia, poor spelling, poor oral reading and difficulty with sounding out nonsense words.

Oh and btw, the requirement of "below average scores" is nonsense. The scores must show a significant ability/achievement gap for a diagnosis.

I've never seen anything with her speech to worry me and she was an early reader (around age 4)...with fluency scores always in the 98th-99th percentile. She does fine with nonsense words, I think. I think there is something going on in terms of organizing thoughts and sequencing...and her lack of pretend play kind of ties in. She can do pretend play when forced to but clearly isn't that into it. She also has some perfectionistic tendencies and is a big picture thinker...she sees patterns that other people would never notice (such as looking at a piece of sheet music for piano and immediately noticing a pattern in the music), but not necessarily details, and with writing you need details.

Her piano teacher says she is extremely advanced with music reading ability but has trouble coordinating her two hands, although seems to do better when she is medicated more. Not sure what that means, if anything.

I wonder if I can just use the writing fluency score to qualify her for an IEP, or if it has to be "written expression" as a whole.

blackcat, your DD sounds very much like mine. She doesn't have ADHD and reading was not early, but the writing issues are very familiar. In our case handwriting turned out not to be the issue - it's fine now, at 11 - but thoughts to language to composed language on paper has been a huge struggle. It became a bigger problem before it became a smaller one, because the thoughts got more complex when she still hadn't developed the ability to get the simple ones out.

My DD uses web organizers a lot - the kind that look like a radiating pattern of idea bubbles. She has also put cartoons of her story ideas (no words involved, that makes it easier for her) on index cards, put them in chronological order, then made more cards to fill in the story until it worked. Then she could focus on sentence creation to tell the story that was already there in pictures. In 4th grade her teachers understood her issues and accepted the web itself in lieu of a written paragraph for many of her writing assignments; we have worked up since then, and now she can do the actual assignment if she takes it home and spends more time on it.

I wish I knew anything about IEPs, but thought I'd offer up our organizer ideas.

She sounds a bit like my son but since I can't get that sorted I am no help. The only thing that has helped so far is the teacher let him write a non-fiction response to her writing prompt. If he doesn't have to make stuff up it seems to go much better. The other thing of course it your dd may have written 2 good sentences and the majority of the rest of the kids may have written 1 to 2 pages of drivel.

Very interesting. Thanks. So was she actually drawing cartoons? DD hates drawing almost as much as writing.

I did ask her to tell me a story and gave her a starter. She wasn't thrilled about this but did tell me a very short story that made sense. I wonder if she could somehow dictate stories into a recorder then type the dictation.

Does anyone know what the "writing samples" test on the WJ actually entails? If I knew that, maybe I could figure out why she did somewhat well on it. I think it was 7th grade equivalent. Maybe she is Ok writing one sentence describing a picture but falls apart with anything more complex. But I don't know what that test is actually measuring or how it is scored.

The brainstorming/sequencing/hard to begin issues are all hallmarks of ADHD. These skills can be worked on separately (games that require thinking of many different items, for instance). They could definitely be worked on under an IEP. It is just very hard to convince people that it's a "can't" situation, not a "won't."

He gave me several scores on the phone that look like they have to do with writing. He said Hadnwriting was a SS of 100 and Writing Samples was 112. Then Fluency at 89 and Spelling 111. So I can't figure out what the difference between Writing Samples and Handwriting would be then. Hadnwriting is grade equivalent 3.6 and Writing Samples is grade equivalent 6.2 (I finally dug out the piece of scratch paper I wrote this on). None of this makes any sense.

Ok, I found this online. But it still doesn't really answer my question about what exactly they need to do for "writing samples":
Written Expression
[8] Writing Fluency measures the skill in formulating and writing simple sentences
quickly.
[11] Writing Samples measures skill in writing responses to a variety of demands. The person must produce
written sentences that are evaluated with respect to the quality of expression. Item difficulty increases by
increasing passage length, le
vel of vocabulary, grammatical complexities, and level of concept abstraction.
The individual is not penalized for errors in basic writing skills, such as spelling or punctuation.

Yes, the teacher seems to think she's just lazy and continually lectures her all day long. DD now thinks she's stupid and that the teacher doesn't like her. The reason I kept her in that school was because she was doing Ok with the old teacher. It wasn't a great situation but tolerable. Now we end up with this. At least there are only 6 or 7 weeks left.

My DD loves to draw. The trick was teaching her to sketch stick figure cartoons quickly, instead of doing the most realistic drawing she could in two hours. We tried recorder/scribing but that didn't work. Repeatedly. Just this year she finally realized it was an option when she scribed my recorded responses to an 'interview' - until now I think interacting with the technology was equally frustrating for her.
Everyone keeps trying to evaluate her for ADHD. Every time, it comes up negative. She has good fluency now, at 11 (writing short sentences that include a given word), but is completely blocked with larger works that require her to organize her own thoughts.

I hope you have a better time than we did; third grade was traumatic and took most of 4th and half of 5th to recover from. Part of it was other issues but most of it was being asked to do writing that was truly difficult for her, but no one recognized that or valued the work she put into it.

Thanks. I should tell her to just bring home her journal so I can see what she actually does there. She never has writing homework. I did see one story that she wrote online but it wasn't fiction, it was about something that happened in her life. It made me laugh because she wrote "Don't ask me to tell you what the hell happened after that." She said the writing teacher crossed out "hell" and wrote "bad word". She said "I thought I'd probably get in trouble for that but did it anyway."

I wish I could figure out how to help her or what exactly it is she's struggling with but since she doesn't bring things home, I just don't know. Her second grade teacher did say at the end of the year that her writing does not seem to match how smart she is otherwise, for instance she was writing variations of the same story about her dead cat over and over.

blackcat, I'm answering your post in pieces - hope that's ok!

Re the above, much of it sounds very similar to my ds who has DCD, not ADHD. *However*, I don't think the lack of interest in pretend play is necessarily a symptom of a challenge - I think that it's more a sign of how the particular person's brain is wired. Some traits such as not being interested in pretend play may occur frequently in children with certain types of diagnoses, I don't think it's necessarily a predictor of the diagnosis.


I think that the way to approach requesting an IEP is to start with understanding and defining what you want in terms of individualized instruction, then look for the data and tests that demonstrate and support the need for that instruction. It's jmo, but a relatively low score in writing fluency could be an indication of a child who has a difficulty getting thoughts out - or it could be an indication of a child who has slow handwriting - or it could be an indication of many other things. I think you'd have a tough time requesting IEP eligibility on a relatively low score on the fluency subtest alone. You can absolutely, however, advocate for help with written expression and use the writing fluency score as part of the supporting data.

polarbear

FWIW, my dysgraphic ds' most recent scores on the WJ-III Achievement writing subtests were: Writing Samples, 123 (94th percentile), Spelling 94 (34th percentile), Writing Fluency 78 (7th percentile), Written Expression 91 (28th percentile) and Broad Written Language 92 (30th percentile).

We were able to successfully advocate for an IEP (qualified under SLD/written expression)... but not based on the WJ-III Achievement scores. The approach we took was to go to the school with a private neuropsych diagnosis of dysgraphia and Disorder of Written Expression, and provided samples of his timed handwriting, his written work (handwritten vs typing vs oral) as well as examples of struggles with answering open-ended questions. Most of our examples were things we'd specifically had him do at home so we could limit and control the circumstances to specifically illustrate how dysgraphia and DOWD were impacting his ability to do the type of work he needed to be able to do at school. We then requested that the school give him the Test of Written Language (TOWL), and due to his specific struggles with written expression, he could not complete the TOWL - and that's really the strongest evidence we had in terms of what the school couldn't argue.


How long has it been since your dd was tested? Was it a private tester or through the school?


One caution - that may be the requirement for eligibility, but you're not (typically) guaranteed an IEP just because of meeting a bar such as this. You also have to be able to show that your dd's ability to perform academically is impacted.


blackcat, I think that the first thing you need to do is some detective work of your own at home. The first thing I'd want to dig into is - will typing really help, or is there a challenge with expressive language on top of your dd's handwriting challenge? I'd suggest giving her a few writing assignments at home - have her use handwriting on one, typing on another, oral response on another. Try this with a few different genres too - give her an assignment that is entirely open-ended in response vs another assignment that is clear-cut in terms of what is expected, such as writing a list of directions.


I think you might be combining two different issues here. The difficulty with creating a fiction story is not necessarily a challenge with organizing thoughts - rather it sounds like a challenge with generating the thoughts to begin with. A graphic organizer might help, but what will probably help more (if generating the ideas is the actual problem), is work on brainstorming ideas, giving very specific examples, and scaffolding writing assignments so that they are broken down into simple steps.


I've seen them but don't have any links to share at this point - we used to have links when ds was in elementary school. One thing that ds did use for organization was Inspiration software. It isn't a graphic organizer that's set up in a specific way, but it allows the student to brainstorm and connect ideas in separate circles, then you can switch the graphic that you've organized into outline form which makes it easier to transpose into paragraph form.


blackcat, if you do go through the process of requesting an IEP eligibility review through the school, I'd request both the TOWL and an SLP eval as part of the eval. This may not be what's up with your dd at all, but fwiw, my dysgraphic ds also struggled to get started on writing assignments and had a tough time figuring out what to write about. An SLP eval revealed he had an expressive language disorder, and the single most beneficial thing we've done that has helped him with writing is SLP therapy.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Graphic organizers appropriate for fiction abound, but it's not what teachers are used to:
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/graphicorganizers/

More later.

Thanks geofizz, I will check out the link.

Polarbear, thanks for your input. What tests will find an expressive language disorder? Or what are the symptoms? That's what I've been wondering about DS, although he has been a lot better lately. Strangely, he does Ok with writing now. He had to write about what adventures he had with Splat the Cat in the last week and since there were no adventures (other than Splat being thrown around), I told him to just make something up. In about 3 minutes he had a good 6 sentences about how Splat the Cat went around the yard with him finding Easter eggs and he taught Splat how to play Minecraft. I'm not sure if DD would have been able to do that or not. Although she lies very well verbally and makes up elaborate stories (telling them as if they are true). Now if only she could put it down on paper. I will definitely experiment and see what I can get her to write. Her speech has always seemed advanced to me and teachers have all said that she is very articulate and advanced, so I can't quite put my finger on what is going on with her.

That lower writing fluency score is a place to focus.

*Does the school work on handwriting? My DS skipped first grade, and thereby skipped the repetitive writing of individual letters. This has harmed him, though I'm thinking that he's getting closer.


I would point this out directly to the teacher. I would likely cast it to the teacher as "we both see an issue here, let's work together to figure this out." And "I'm hearing a lot from DD that makes me think she's getting the idea that her struggles are that she's lazy. I see... (describe the trouble -- difficulty forming ideas, perfectionism, etc))" If at all possible, I'd have the meeting in person to humanize the interaction and to watch her body language in response.

I would cast the issue with the handwriting vs typing as "I'm wondering if we could collect some observational data..." Point to the writing fluency scores and ask if maybe she could compare output on handwritten and typed assignments. Ask that it be assigned to your DD, not for her to ask for it - at this point, *no one* knows what's right for your dd, including your dd. Also point out that the lower writing fluency score will point toward worse handwriting when she's focused on writing a statement with meaning instead of just writing letters. She can keep up with her brain, or she can form the letters well. Get the psychologist to tell you this, so you can pass it on to the teacher as "the psychologist says..."

For fiction writing, we've worked to separate the task of writing from the task of coming up with the story and sequencing it. We like story cubes for this. We've started with just 3-4 cubes, not the whole set. I have DS physically sequence the cubes in the order he'll use them. I *never* criticize or comment on the stories (they're very bare bones), but instead, we'll take turns on making stories, and I'll over embellish what ever it is I want him to do (giving characters names, more adjectives, more details, better connection between cubes, etc). I plan to later start scribing onto graphic organizers his stories to show him how it could be used. Maybe later we can get to actually writing the story, but with me doing all the scribing.

Speech and language: we've gotten good info from the CELF and the Language Processing Test. The problem with interpretation is that the SLP giving the test needs to be aware of an able to interpret the results alongside the IQ tests. We've wasted a lot of years on speech evaluations where the SLP only looks at the scores relative to average.

Don't have time to read the whole thread, and possibly there is some LD type explanation, but it could be just plain old perfectionism. This can particularly show in creative writing IMO. Maybe worth bringing to her attention the fact that authors go through many drafts and face a lot of failure and that is OK. JK Rowling is a favorite example in our house.

I'm not sure how much to get into it with the teacher since she's a sub and the school year is almost over. Plus, another parent told me that the teacher was gossiping to her about various kids in the class (using names) and told her that my DD is "clueless" about what is going on in class and slow. Nice. Very professional. Just yet another example of heinous behavior in this school and thank god we are getting out.
She knows about the ADHD and that we have been experimenting with her meds and dose, she knows there is a copy of a psych report floating around (the first one we got with the WISC scores) and I told her to read it. It says right in the report that her GAI is over the 99.9th percentile and that she can be perfectionistic, has ADHD, is a visual-spatial learner, slow processing speed, and I told her that as well. So for her to run around the school putting down DD when DD tries so hard to please people, really makes me mad.

I think once we get her into the other school in the fall I will ask for a comprehensive evaluation and bring up these various tests.

geofizz, what story cubes are you using?

I can't remember who asked about the WJ but she took it about a month ago and I met with the psych (a different one than the psych who did the WISC last fall) and he told me there is no disability (other than the ADHD, although he seemed to be questioning that), she is just quirky, extremely intelligent, and over-processes information, maybe in relation to the very high perceptual reasoning score. I signed a release so that he could send me a report but I never got it. I will call and ask if I don't get it soon but I don't know that what he has to say is that meaningful anyway. It was clear to me that he had never given anyone the WJ or scored it, or worked with kids who are that gifted. I took her there because the primary care doc said he was the only person who called her back with interest in seeing DD, and gave me a referral to him (needed for insurance).

Blackcat, I think geofizz is talking about Rory's Story Cubes. This is the base set, but there are additional ones for actions and voyages, I think. They were in my kids' stockings this year. My almost-6-year-old, in particular, likes to roll them and make up a story, but my 10-year-old likes them, too. They might be something for your DD to try and see what she thinks about them.

Thanks, I think we actually might have the basic set (I picked them up at a thrift store I think), but have never used them.

Yes, those are the cubes.

The long term subs I've dealt with have generally been fully fledged teachers, beholden to the same standards of ability. She clearly doesn't understand the impacts of your daughter's disability and is thereby misterpretting what she sees. If this teacher is not holding to basics of FERPA, you might want to bring this up with the principal.

Do you have anything with the school on the ADHD? A 504? It would be worthwhile to find an ally in the school who can instruct this sub on the effects of ADHD in the classroom.

You say it's nearly the end of the year, but a negative 6 weeks can have long-lasting impacts on a child.

The sub used to be a full time teacher in the school, retired, but has been subbing ever since. The school is truly toxic and I already pulled out DS in the middle of the year. The principal hates us because I had to complain about him to the State and upper level admin. The school falsified another kids' IEP. That is how bad it is. The school that took DS wouldn't take DD because they don't have space in that grade, and she was generally happy there with the regular teacher (before she left to have surgery), who clearly adored her. That teacher was willing to put up with her idiosyncracies for the most part. She did do some odd things like keep her in from recess to finish work, but it was tolerable. I started the process to get her a 504 but realized it wasn't going to work because we don't really know what her issue is or what modifications need to be made. I can't have them do an evaluation because the spec. ed people don't know what they are doing, and if they can't figure it out, they just make things up. Everyone fought me there when I asked for DS to be evaluated last fall, and the spec. ed administration for the district had to get involved and "help" them. We finally got an IEP written but the school wasn't following it or pulling him out for services. So it's a pretty bad situation and I just can't see trying to do anything about DD there. I asked DD if she wants to be homeschooled for the rest of the year and she said no. Yesterday DD said the teacher didn't lecture or scold her at all so maybe things are getting better. I am going to stay on top of things and if I hear about the teacher being on her case I'm going to go in. Dh already went in once and stayed there in the classroom observing for a few hours. DD and her friend said that the teacher was "nice and happy" while Dh was sitting there. Normally she's a yeller. The teacher thinks that she needs to teach DD coping skills to deal with the ADHD. She wrote this an in email: "She is so talented but will struggle if she does not learn to address some of the issues at a personal level." She also wrote this. "DD is a delightful girl with many talents. She is going to struggle with work completion and focus because of her ADHD but I think we have to keep holding her accountable for the work. I know she is capable and she will have to learn adapting skills because this is just how she is. Because she is so bright, I don't think I would be doing her justice if I weren't trying to teach her ways to accommodate her focusing issues." While on the surface there is nothing wrong with that, I think she is taking it too far and trying to "fix" DD, DD senses that the teacher thinks there is something wrong with her and is trying to fix her, and internalizing it.

Ugh, sorry,now I remember the back story.

blackcat, our ds uses the Rory Story Cubes also - we first used them to help him practice writing fiction, and he now uses them when he's got a writing assignment and he's stuck - even though he doesn't necessarily use what he gets from the cubes in his assignment, the act of rolling the cubes and trying to come up with something to put together a brief "story" helps somehow get his brain working on the "real" assignment.

As far as the teacher at school, she's an issue - but the larger issue is understanding what's behind your dd's struggles. I think you're going to have to do more digging on your own and follow-up with a request for a comprehensive eval at school. I'd put the paperwork in now for that request - you have enough evidence that it's warranted (difficulty with written expression). I wouldn't quote the private test scores on the written request for the school eval, I'd just state the issues you've observed at home re generating written expression (can include handwriting, getting thoughts out, organization of writing), and any examples your dd can give you from school. If there are only 6 weeks of school left, that's 30 business days, which I'm guessing is less than the time limit required to complete an evaluation in, and it's a busy time of year at school for folks who are involved in IEP eligibility evaluations because it's the time of year when IEPs for the next school year are put together and finalized for the students who already have IEPs - in other words, I'm guessing there won't be an actual eligibility eval until the beginning of the next school year, although there should be a meeting to determine if the school will go through with an eval. So you'll have the summer to continue to pursue what you can privately at home re understanding what you can re what's going on.

Anyway, that's jmo - I think the focus needs to not be on the teacher, but on trying to figure out what's really behind your dd's issues with writing. That's not saying it's not important to continue to advocate as much as you can with this teacher, but instead to not lose focus on the larger issue while getting through the day-to-day at school.

Hang in there!

polarbear

I agree. As long as DD continues to want to go to school, we'll just have to deal with the teacher the best that we can. I was furious when I heard she was gossiping and being negative about DD to a parent, but am letting it go (for now). Probably what I'll do is request a conference with the new teacher in the fall after they have had a chance to get to know her, and hopefully they can give me unbiased opinions. Then depending on what they say I will have a better idea of what to ask for in an eval.
Part of the problem here may be that we greatly reduced DD's med dose around the time that the old teacher left (shortly before), so it could be that she has been almost completely unmedicated in the mornings if her patch is not kicked in for 3 hours. The old teacher had them read in the morning, which DD does fine with even if she is not medicated, but the new teacher has them come in and immediately sit down and do math or writing.

Well, it is certainly true that people with disabilities have to learn workarounds in order to be successful.

I'd include some of those comments in the letter requesting eval. Comments of this kind are evidence: DD is not successfully completing work according to the teacher; the teacher thinks she probably requires specially designed instruction and accommodations. When you receive comments like that it is appropriate to ask: "OK, so what is the school going to do to support DD?" Not as a matter of "fixing" the child, but as a matter of providing equal access to the curriculum.

These med changes can be so difficult. Have you revisited what's happening at school with your prescribing doctor?

I think she's going to have to go back to her pill in the morning but stick to the lower dose patch. Dropping the dose didn't seem to make a difference in terms of reducing side effects anyway (although she still will be on a lower dose now than before). The other teacher didn't know if the pill made a difference but that was probably because she was reading in the morning when she got to school, so it wouldn't have. I'm saving all emails so I can show a history and so that I can use it when I make a case for whatever accommodations or services I think she should have. Honestly, I think she is bad enough that if she wasn't medicated at all she would need an aide, because she would do absolutely zero work.

Some people find second-line (non-stimulants) work okay and make it possible to reduce side effects. If your current prescriber is a regular pediatrician, I'd recommend finding a specialist who knows the ins and outs of these meds....

We tried tenex which was a disaster. She had no affect other than crying, and acted like she was sedated. Complete opposite of her normal personality. The second grade teacher called me in the middle of the day the first week of school last year and said she's never seen a child in such bad shape. Her focus was actually worse if that is possible, because she was sedated. It's weird because it's just a blood pressure medication (or that's what it's normally used for). Over the summer I may investigate other options.