Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional DD and writing

FWIW, my dysgraphic ds' most recent scores on the WJ-III Achievement writing subtests were: Writing Samples, 123 (94th percentile), Spelling 94 (34th percentile), Writing Fluency 78 (7th percentile), Written Expression 91 (28th percentile) and Broad Written Language 92 (30th percentile).

We were able to successfully advocate for an IEP (qualified under SLD/written expression)... but not based on the WJ-III Achievement scores. The approach we took was to go to the school with a private neuropsych diagnosis of dysgraphia and Disorder of Written Expression, and provided samples of his timed handwriting, his written work (handwritten vs typing vs oral) as well as examples of struggles with answering open-ended questions. Most of our examples were things we'd specifically had him do at home so we could limit and control the circumstances to specifically illustrate how dysgraphia and DOWD were impacting his ability to do the type of work he needed to be able to do at school. We then requested that the school give him the Test of Written Language (TOWL), and due to his specific struggles with written expression, he could not complete the TOWL - and that's really the strongest evidence we had in terms of what the school couldn't argue.


How long has it been since your dd was tested? Was it a private tester or through the school?


One caution - that may be the requirement for eligibility, but you're not (typically) guaranteed an IEP just because of meeting a bar such as this. You also have to be able to show that your dd's ability to perform academically is impacted.


blackcat, I think that the first thing you need to do is some detective work of your own at home. The first thing I'd want to dig into is - will typing really help, or is there a challenge with expressive language on top of your dd's handwriting challenge? I'd suggest giving her a few writing assignments at home - have her use handwriting on one, typing on another, oral response on another. Try this with a few different genres too - give her an assignment that is entirely open-ended in response vs another assignment that is clear-cut in terms of what is expected, such as writing a list of directions.


I think you might be combining two different issues here. The difficulty with creating a fiction story is not necessarily a challenge with organizing thoughts - rather it sounds like a challenge with generating the thoughts to begin with. A graphic organizer might help, but what will probably help more (if generating the ideas is the actual problem), is work on brainstorming ideas, giving very specific examples, and scaffolding writing assignments so that they are broken down into simple steps.


I've seen them but don't have any links to share at this point - we used to have links when ds was in elementary school. One thing that ds did use for organization was Inspiration software. It isn't a graphic organizer that's set up in a specific way, but it allows the student to brainstorm and connect ideas in separate circles, then you can switch the graphic that you've organized into outline form which makes it easier to transpose into paragraph form.


blackcat, if you do go through the process of requesting an IEP eligibility review through the school, I'd request both the TOWL and an SLP eval as part of the eval. This may not be what's up with your dd at all, but fwiw, my dysgraphic ds also struggled to get started on writing assignments and had a tough time figuring out what to write about. An SLP eval revealed he had an expressive language disorder, and the single most beneficial thing we've done that has helped him with writing is SLP therapy.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Graphic organizers appropriate for fiction abound, but it's not what teachers are used to:
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/graphicorganizers/

More later.

Thanks geofizz, I will check out the link.

Polarbear, thanks for your input. What tests will find an expressive language disorder? Or what are the symptoms? That's what I've been wondering about DS, although he has been a lot better lately. Strangely, he does Ok with writing now. He had to write about what adventures he had with Splat the Cat in the last week and since there were no adventures (other than Splat being thrown around), I told him to just make something up. In about 3 minutes he had a good 6 sentences about how Splat the Cat went around the yard with him finding Easter eggs and he taught Splat how to play Minecraft. I'm not sure if DD would have been able to do that or not. Although she lies very well verbally and makes up elaborate stories (telling them as if they are true). Now if only she could put it down on paper. I will definitely experiment and see what I can get her to write. Her speech has always seemed advanced to me and teachers have all said that she is very articulate and advanced, so I can't quite put my finger on what is going on with her.

That lower writing fluency score is a place to focus.

*Does the school work on handwriting? My DS skipped first grade, and thereby skipped the repetitive writing of individual letters. This has harmed him, though I'm thinking that he's getting closer.


I would point this out directly to the teacher. I would likely cast it to the teacher as "we both see an issue here, let's work together to figure this out." And "I'm hearing a lot from DD that makes me think she's getting the idea that her struggles are that she's lazy. I see... (describe the trouble -- difficulty forming ideas, perfectionism, etc))" If at all possible, I'd have the meeting in person to humanize the interaction and to watch her body language in response.

I would cast the issue with the handwriting vs typing as "I'm wondering if we could collect some observational data..." Point to the writing fluency scores and ask if maybe she could compare output on handwritten and typed assignments. Ask that it be assigned to your DD, not for her to ask for it - at this point, *no one* knows what's right for your dd, including your dd. Also point out that the lower writing fluency score will point toward worse handwriting when she's focused on writing a statement with meaning instead of just writing letters. She can keep up with her brain, or she can form the letters well. Get the psychologist to tell you this, so you can pass it on to the teacher as "the psychologist says..."

For fiction writing, we've worked to separate the task of writing from the task of coming up with the story and sequencing it. We like story cubes for this. We've started with just 3-4 cubes, not the whole set. I have DS physically sequence the cubes in the order he'll use them. I *never* criticize or comment on the stories (they're very bare bones), but instead, we'll take turns on making stories, and I'll over embellish what ever it is I want him to do (giving characters names, more adjectives, more details, better connection between cubes, etc). I plan to later start scribing onto graphic organizers his stories to show him how it could be used. Maybe later we can get to actually writing the story, but with me doing all the scribing.

Speech and language: we've gotten good info from the CELF and the Language Processing Test. The problem with interpretation is that the SLP giving the test needs to be aware of an able to interpret the results alongside the IQ tests. We've wasted a lot of years on speech evaluations where the SLP only looks at the scores relative to average.

Don't have time to read the whole thread, and possibly there is some LD type explanation, but it could be just plain old perfectionism. This can particularly show in creative writing IMO. Maybe worth bringing to her attention the fact that authors go through many drafts and face a lot of failure and that is OK. JK Rowling is a favorite example in our house.

I'm not sure how much to get into it with the teacher since she's a sub and the school year is almost over. Plus, another parent told me that the teacher was gossiping to her about various kids in the class (using names) and told her that my DD is "clueless" about what is going on in class and slow. Nice. Very professional. Just yet another example of heinous behavior in this school and thank god we are getting out.
She knows about the ADHD and that we have been experimenting with her meds and dose, she knows there is a copy of a psych report floating around (the first one we got with the WISC scores) and I told her to read it. It says right in the report that her GAI is over the 99.9th percentile and that she can be perfectionistic, has ADHD, is a visual-spatial learner, slow processing speed, and I told her that as well. So for her to run around the school putting down DD when DD tries so hard to please people, really makes me mad.

I think once we get her into the other school in the fall I will ask for a comprehensive evaluation and bring up these various tests.

geofizz, what story cubes are you using?

I can't remember who asked about the WJ but she took it about a month ago and I met with the psych (a different one than the psych who did the WISC last fall) and he told me there is no disability (other than the ADHD, although he seemed to be questioning that), she is just quirky, extremely intelligent, and over-processes information, maybe in relation to the very high perceptual reasoning score. I signed a release so that he could send me a report but I never got it. I will call and ask if I don't get it soon but I don't know that what he has to say is that meaningful anyway. It was clear to me that he had never given anyone the WJ or scored it, or worked with kids who are that gifted. I took her there because the primary care doc said he was the only person who called her back with interest in seeing DD, and gave me a referral to him (needed for insurance).

Blackcat, I think geofizz is talking about Rory's Story Cubes. This is the base set, but there are additional ones for actions and voyages, I think. They were in my kids' stockings this year. My almost-6-year-old, in particular, likes to roll them and make up a story, but my 10-year-old likes them, too. They might be something for your DD to try and see what she thinks about them.

Thanks, I think we actually might have the basic set (I picked them up at a thrift store I think), but have never used them.

Yes, those are the cubes.

The long term subs I've dealt with have generally been fully fledged teachers, beholden to the same standards of ability. She clearly doesn't understand the impacts of your daughter's disability and is thereby misterpretting what she sees. If this teacher is not holding to basics of FERPA, you might want to bring this up with the principal.

Do you have anything with the school on the ADHD? A 504? It would be worthwhile to find an ally in the school who can instruct this sub on the effects of ADHD in the classroom.

You say it's nearly the end of the year, but a negative 6 weeks can have long-lasting impacts on a child.