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    #188799 04/18/14 01:08 PM
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    This article surprised me. If you go to a tournament where you are supposed to debate X, and you decide you want to talk about unrelated issue Y, you should automatically lose. But nowadays you can win. Some people in academia do not respect rational argument.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...debate-reinforce-white-privilege/360746/
    Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
    JESSICA CAREW KRAFT
    The Atlantic
    APRIL 16 2014, 12:06 PM ET

    Quote
    It used to be that if you went to a college-level debate tournament, the students you’d see would be bookish future lawyers from elite universities, most of them white. In matching navy blazers, they’d recite academic arguments for and against various government policies. It was tame, predictable, and, frankly, boring.

    No more.

    These days, an increasingly diverse group of participants has transformed debate competitions, mounting challenges to traditional form and content by incorporating personal experience, performance, and radical politics. These “alternative-style” debaters have achieved success, too, taking top honors at national collegiate tournaments over the past few years.

    But this transformation has also sparked a difficult, often painful controversy for a community that prides itself on handling volatile topics.

    On March 24, 2014 at the Cross Examination Debate Association (CEDA) Championships at Indiana University, two Towson University students, Ameena Ruffin and Korey Johnson, became the first African-American women to win a national college debate tournament, for which the resolution asked whether the U.S. president’s war powers should be restricted. Rather than address the resolution straight on, Ruffin and Johnson, along with other teams of African-Americans, attacked its premise. The more pressing issue, they argued, is how the U.S. government is at war with poor black communities.

    ...

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    I would say that their style reflects the reality of "debate" as it currently exists in public discourse. If college is supposed to prepare you for life, they're doing the right thing by rewarding students for ignoring the topic at hand, substituting anecdata for actual data, disrespecting rules and limits, and utilizing performance art. In the real world, anyone who debates using formal techniques has already lost the argument.

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    How depressing, Dude.

    I fear that you are correct, however. frown


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    Except for the obscenities it will prepare them admirably for NZ politics. But that is not the purpose of a debate and if they do not stick to the rules they are arguing not debating the same as if you use your hands you are not playing soccer.

    If people are keen I would go for one tournament with two categories - traditional and modern. If they end up split along racial lines well so are a lot of sports competitions.

    I do think it is ludricrous to suggest afroamericans can't follow debate rules though.

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    Yikes. I was a member of one of the debating societies in college, and if you didn't stick to the point or follow procedure, people would jump up and shout "point of order!" or "point of information/misrepresentation!" These statements could come from the audience as well as people actively debating.

    There is no way that a side would have been able to get away with an argument that didn't address the point. They would have lost and never been invited back again. But as Dude and HK have said, none of that seems to matter these days. frown

    puffin #188832 04/18/14 07:57 PM
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    Originally Posted by puffin
    If people are keen I would go for one tournament with two categories - traditional and modern. If they end up split along racial lines well so are a lot of sports competitions.
    Some people had a related idea but abandoned it under pressure:
    Quote
    To counter this trend, Hardy and his allies want to create a “policy only” space in which traditional standards for debate will be enforced. However, this is nearly impossible to do within the two major debate associations, CEDA and the National Debate Tournament (NDT), as they are governed by participants and have few conduct enforcement mechanisms. [...]

    14 schools expressed interest in sending debaters to Hardy’s proposed alternative tournament, scheduled to occur last month. But after word got out that a group of mostly white teams from elite universities were trying to form their own league, Hardy and his supporters were widely attacked on Facebook and other online forums. Ultimately the competition didn’t happen, purportedly because of logistical issues with the hotel venue. Nonetheless, Hardy wrote in an email that a “toxic climate” has precluded even “strong supporters of ‘policy debate’ from “publicly attach[ing] their name to anything that might get them called racist or worse.”

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    I had to re-check the publication date ( nah, not April 1st) and whether or not I was reading an Onion article. Words fail me...


    Become what you are
    puffin #188857 04/19/14 06:34 AM
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    Originally Posted by puffin
    I do think it is ludricrous to suggest afroamericans can't follow debate rules though.
    Some may say that a select group CHOSE not to follow the rules, and this ought not to reflect on all persons who share an ethnicity. This group seemed to find it more beneficial to act outside of the established, accepted practices. There is an adage, "What you reward, you get more of." The throwing of chairs and other disorderly behaviors described in the article revealed a lot about the content of their character. The described behaviors may not only violate debate policy but may violate several civil and criminal laws as well.

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    But that is not the purpose of a debate and if they do not stick to the rules they are arguing not debating the same as if you use your hands you are not playing soccer.
    Well said.

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    What's next, cold cocking your opponent during a chess game and being declared the winner?

    Last edited by madeinuk; 04/19/14 06:51 AM.

    Become what you are
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    There's no doubt that this constitutes "breaking" the game you don't feel like playing, however. wink

    Of course, that didn't work out so well for Tonya Harding, last I checked.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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