Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 591 guests, and 14 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    streble, DeliciousPizza, prominentdigitiz, parentologyco, Smartlady60
    11,413 Registered Users
    March
    S M T W T F S
    1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 582
    G
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    G
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 582
    My husband and I met with our 3rd grader's principal today. She appeared to be open to discuss all options. She also stated that she has a sub-specialty in gifted education. I brought in a list of what we know - IQ numbers , 99% composites on Cogat and Iowa, Lexile score of 1145. We reviewed the numbers, and then the principal pulled up the Case 21 scores from 2 weeks ago. My daughter did terrible on them (relatively speaking)compared to all the other testing. The principal was baffled and asked us if anything was going on that day. The school district uses those and EOG scores to determine single subject or whole grade acceleration!! My heart sank. The principal went on to state that maybe, just maybe, her other scores would be part of the evaluation process. She just wasn't sure as the whole process is changing. She did acknowledge that for our daughter the AIG services would not be enough of a challenge, particularly since it's group work which doesn't seem like it's something that DD likes to do.
    She also pointed out that our daughter's IQ was an 18 on Matrix reasoning and about as good on the other Perceptual Reasoning vs. a 12 on the Digit Span in Working Memory. She asked if the tester had pointed that out. She had, but didn't seem concerned. Should we be?? It is a large difference.
    The principal then went through the personality traits of giftedness and laughed as we checked off a lot of those boxes. She asked if our daughter "bought in" the concept of applying herself to school. She wondered if our daughter understood that, without putting forth effort, school wasn't going to go so well. She stated again that she was perplexed by her low scores on the Case 21 and asked if she could take her on as a "special project". She would meet with her occasionally, and she asked if she could do "Brainology" with her.
    We also agreed to do a Woodcock Johnson achievement test with our daughter and then meet back mid-May.
    Well? It didn't go badly, but I am very surprised by the low Case 21 scores and rather discouraged.

    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 1,917
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 1,917
    Well, there is some good news here. It's great that the principal seems open. What was the purpose of the meeting? What types of issues is your DD having with school? Were you thinking acceleration? Is the Case 21 sort of a state standards test? I'm not familiar with it. I wouldn't put a great amount of stock in a test taken on one day, especially if it goes against all other evidence of what your DD knows/can do. The principal must have thought something was off too, based on her questioning. Are there other Case 21 tests she has taken in the past for comparison?

    I think the Brainology thing could be interesting. I believe that is a program based on Carol Dweck's Mindset research. I haven't heard any reviews of it, though.

    We had our DS take the WJ achievement test at the school when he was in kindergarten. It really helped get him accelerated, mostly because the school was familiar with that test, versus the IQ test we had done privately.

    If acceleration, subject or full grade, is a goal, I would recommend asking the school to fill out the Iowa Acceleration Scales, a very objective checklist to determine whether kids are good skip candidates. It covers many different areas, not just testing.

    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 1,032
    N
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    N
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 1,032
    Having a principal who understands and wants to take your DD on as a special project sounds like a win to me!

    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 161
    S
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    S
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 161
    I'm not familiar with Case 21 but DD6 also scored 18 matrix reasoning and 12 on digit span. Our ed. pysch. told us her WM is her weak area but still high average (score 120) She scored 15 on letter number sequencing so that brought the number up. When she told us she said, "but you're not surprised right" and it did make sense because DD is much better with math when she can actually see the numbers versus mental math but with practice this has improved. The psych did point out that she wasn't worried about it because this is an area that can be improved and because she also has processing speed in the gifted range. What is your DD's processing speed like? Will the school administer the WJ test or will you do that on your end? It does sound like your principal has an open mind and willing to work with you. Yes, what is the evaluation process for?

    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 3,363
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 3,363
    greenlotus, our ds had a relatively low working memory score when he was first tested by a neuropsych at 8 years old (I don't remember the exact # or which subtest was low, but I remember being surprised by it (he'd ceilinged other subtests under VCI and PRI), but our neuropsych said that working memory is the one are of the WISC that she sees scores increase on as children age, and she also wasn't worried about it at all (and she did have other concerns - processing speed - so she wasn't just brushing us off :D). Anyway, when our ds was tested again 3 years later for an updated neuropsych eval, his WM scores actually did go up considerably, and working memory has never been an issue for him at school.

    I'm guessing Case21 are your state's standardized tests? Has your dd taken more than one year of them, or was this her first test? One of my dds took her first set of state testing last year and scored low enough to qualify for remedial work across all subjects ... nothing at all like what she scores on classroom tests and WJ-III etc. She just took her second round of state testing again recently, and from what I heard, she raced through the tests quickly. She does this with homework too and makes careless mistakes, so I suspect that might be the issue for her. Another thing that tripped up my ds once on a standardized test administered at school where he had to copy his answers onto a bubble sheet - he filled in one bubble on the wrong line accidentally and then just followed line by line for all the rest of his bubbles -making almost all of his answers incorrect.
    I suspect it's some small something - try not to worry over it. And absolutely insist that the school consider *all* of your dd's testing result when considering gifted placement/acceleration etc. Their printed policy might not say it's what is accepted, but you can advocate successfully with the strong data you have.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 582
    G
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    G
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 582
    st. pauli girl,
    The purpose of today's meeting was to start a discussion about how to challenge DD starting next Fall.. She was accepted into the AIG program, but our other daughter is AIG math, and it's not very challenging and only meets every other week. In addition, we are starting to hear lots of "school is boring - why do I have to wait on other kids" - etc, etc. She is beginning to not like school. As I stated, even the principal wondered if it wasn't right for our daughter. She was very impressed with the Lexile score and made a big deal out of stating that it is evidence based. DD's older sister is only one grade ahead so between that and the fact that DD is the size of a peanut makes me think that full grade is not in our future (evidently Iowa frowns on full grade accel. in cases like ours). On the other hand, the principal asked what we wanted for DD. We asked if the WJ would clarify her achievement, and the principal asked us to have the WJ done.

    Here is the scoop on the Case 21. The kids take it pretty often. DD's scores are all over the place every time she takes it.

    "CASE Assessments provides pre-made or custom benchmarks based on a district or school’s needs. Benchmarks can be given at six or nine weeks. Other features include •60% of questions measure higher order thinking
    •Questions are tightly aligned with state standards
    •Content vocabulary is appropriate for the subject/level
    •Tests are aligned to district guides or pacing guides recommended by CASE Assessments
    •Format and question stems mirror state tests"

    http://www.te21.com/pages/page.asp?page_id=222268

    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 582
    G
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    G
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 582
    Slammie,
    Our DD's processing speed was:
    Coding 17
    Symbol Search 13

    You were told that Working Memory scores could be improved? I know that our girl can't stand memorizing multiplication tables and working on spelling words although if we practice she ends up fine. She claims that she has a terrible memory. She doesn't want to even try.
    We all were wondering if the WJ III could shine a light on her actual achievement since the Case 21 results don't match the rest of her work - is that what you meant by further evaluation?

    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 582
    G
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    G
    Joined: Feb 2014
    Posts: 582
    Polarbear,
    You are the second one who has mentioned that the Working Memory could go up. That is very hopeful.
    I "think" this is the second Case 21. They get tested so often that I can't keep track. Next month is her first EOG. I despise that test. I don't even take tests now that long and boring in grad school. Anyway, her Case 21 scores have been all over the place. I went home and asked DD what she thought about the test. DD stated "It was the more boring test ever!!" She added that she was the first to finish except for a boy that she knew. I wonder if her grade school teacher can give feedback on how DD took it?
    So you have seen school districts back down from their own policies? I think that my husband and I are concerned about coming across as "pushy parents".

    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 88
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 88
    It sounds as if you and the principal are working in harmony to ensure what's best for your DD. I wouldn't worry about coming across as "pushy parents", as the principal is clearly working WITH you.


    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 3,363
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 3,363
    Originally Posted by greenlotus
    So you have seen school districts back down from their own policies? I think that my husband and I are concerned about coming across as "pushy parents".

    It's not so much "backing down" as it is having to acknowledge the validity of the results on widely-recognized tests such as WISC. Our ds is one of the children here who did not perform anywhere near the range on the CogAT when tested for the gifted program at school than he did on WISC etc that had been administered privately. I also dislike being perceived as a "pushy" parent, and pushy really isn't in my nature. What I did in advocating for my ds was to focus on data (I'm a scientist)... so I tried to just put together the info as I would look at data in a report - look at the facts, look at what backs up the facts, and take the emotion out of it. In my ds' case, I started with my request for gifted services by showing the school his outside testing. They wanted to do their own testing, which was the CogAT. When the school said my ds' score on the CogAT wasn't high enough to qualify, I once again showed them the WISC and other outside tests that we had, and asked them "are you questioning the WISC results?" If they insisted they needed to do their own testing I asked them "Are you questioning the results found by a respected professional psychologist?" I can't remember if your dd's other testing was done by the school or a private psych, but if it was done by the school you can still ask if the school is questioning your dd's results. I have also known other parents here who've had similar issues who would put the question back to the school as "Are you saying it's possible to be gifted only in certain circumstances or on certain days?" When our school staff replied that "It's school district policy" I just replied back "He's tested at (xxx) on a nationally recognized test that is widely acknowledged to be a good measure of ability, more so than test x which tests (fill in the blank). Are you saying he doesn't belong in the gifted program?"

    I suspect from what you've written about your school you'll have to stand firm and advocate advocate advocate for your dd, but know that it is most likely something you *can* do successfully. I know that once I started networking with other parents where I live, I found that many (if not most) of the students in our elementary gifted program landed there because their parents advocated them into it. I also found that in working with school staff, a little "push" from parents was expected and not perceived to be overly pushy. My gauge of "pushy" was much more sensitive than most school personnel's idea of "pushy".

    Hang in there!

    polarbear


    Moderated by  M-Moderator, Mark D. 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by aeh - 03/27/24 01:58 PM
    Quotations that resonate with gifted people
    by indigo - 03/27/24 12:38 PM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 03/23/24 06:11 PM
    California Tries to Close the Gap in Math
    by thx1138 - 03/22/24 03:43 AM
    Gifted kids in Illinois. Recommendations?
    by indigo - 03/20/24 05:41 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5