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Pud (almost 7) just finished 1st grade at our public school. He has been identified by them as gifted and they have a 1 1/2 hour a week pullout program for enrichment. They do not have acceleration, either full grade or subject (well, they'd have to do full grade if we really fought for it but it is against district policy). We had a really bad year in 1st grade trying to get them to give him accelerated work (or at least skip the stuff he already knew). He recently took the End of Second Grade ITBS and scored 97th Percentile, GE= 4:7. I'm looking at these school options (with comments):

1) Second grade at public school - Principal has agreed to pretest him in math and reading and let him do what she calls rubrics, crossword puzzles with math terms, "number searches", drawing a house and measuring sides, writing about math items. All of that depends on the teacher, which they won't reveal to me until a week before school starts. School offers acceleration in math in 5th grade. I dealt with the Vice Principal all last year and never got anwhere. She will take the principal's place in January. They will continue to do Saxon phonics. The GT pullout program will study Egypt.

2) Private school (SCA) - they did the ITBS and suggest putting him in 4th grade (a 2 year skip). DH opposed to this because of age and maturity level; not sure if he is mature enough for 4th grade content. We have discussed putting him in 3rd there and moving him to 4th mid-year. SCA meets 2 1/2 hours a day 4 days a week and does not have music, PE, recess, or art. Parents provide that. It is expensive. This would give us time to do extra projects and activities at home. SCA director thinks he could conceivably (?) be ready for college by 12 or 13 (eek). They don't have much wiggle room with a short day, so there's not in-depth coverage. It would cover the fundamentals, though.

3) Home School - This would probably meet his academic needs. DH opposed to this completely citing structure, discipline, and sanity. Pud and I have done some this summer and it would be very hard as we are both stubborn and strong willed. I can foresee many power struggles. It would also be hard with an only child as he has no "built-in" playmates.

I've looked into transferring to another school in the district (NO), buying into a nearby school district that has a better GT program (but they won't test him until he is enrolled and I don't want to enroll him unless he qualifies; she told me his CoGat scores wouldn't be enough to qualify him; he'd have to take the Nagliere?) (NO was their answer), Montessori, and religious schools. I didn't get a warm fuzzy about the Montessori. The religious schools close by are too religious. There are two religious schools farther from us but they are way, way expensive and would involve about 4 hours a day of drive time. I've looked at another private school but it only goes to 4th grade and then we'd be doing this all over again.
Questions I am considering: What is your long term goal for Pud? Do I want him to be going to college at age 16 or 17? Skipping grades starts down a path that will lead to this. Will he be emotionally mature enough for that? Will he "get burned out" from the pressure of performing and "growing up" too fast?

Do I just want him to be challenged and happy in school? What will it take for that to happen? Could enrichment in grade level satisfy the issue of being challenged while allowing social development with same age peers? Would advancement cause social/emotional issues? What about playtime?

By the way, I did the IAS and he scored a 55, which indicates "good candidate for acceleration". Interpersonal skills subtotal was his lowest. And, I did it without any input from the school or teacher.

Thoughts, opinions, questions, ideas? Sorry this got so long. I've got to make a decision soon. I'm leaning toward 3rd grade at SCA and considering it "building a foundation" while we build structures "off site" (sorry, construction terms) to add once we are certain of a solid foundation.

I think 3rd grade at the private school sounds like the best option because it sounds like they really "get" him there. I wouldn't worry about college, yet. If he finishes high school early he can take classes at a nearby college and transfer to a university of his choosing when he is a little older.

There are other options to fill some time and build maturity such as study abroad exchange programs where he would live with a family and attend a high school in a foreign language.

I would play it by ear, just go with what looks like the best option right now. These kids change so fast it's hard to plan too far ahead.

Cathy

Wow. That is a hard decision. I'm pretty new to all this, too, but I would like to ask some questions. What did your son think of first grade? You said it was a bad year for getting any accelerated work, but did he enjoy going to first grade? Did he have friends and enjoy it socially? We did a mid-year grade skip this year from second to third and the decision was easier because he was miserable in second grade socially (as well as being bored). Part of the Iowa Acceleration Scale is asking the child what he or she wants to do. I was just curious what your son's decision would be.

The private school sounds like they are willing to work with a gifted kid and let him find where he is comfortable academically (and presumably socially). It sounds a bit more flexible. Have you tried going over the head of your public school principle? We just had a meeting with our school district's curriculum director and found her to be much more understanding of HG+ kids and their needs. Our public school gave us a single grade skip and pull-out classes (which are less than desirable!), but never really seems to "get" our son or his needs. The curriculum director immediately began speaking about asynchronous development in highly gifted kids and made suggestions about additional subject acceleration in science and compacting in math. I don't think we would have gotten that without going up the food chain a bit. You might find that if other schools in your district have a history of accelerating gifted kids, then you can use that as a setting a precedent (even if it is not in your actual school).

I hope some of this helps. If it is any comfort to you, my son did much, much better after a one year grade skip in the middle of the year. He will now graduate from high school at age 16, provided there are no additional whole grade skips. The problem is that he learns so quickly that he mastered all of the material in third grade before the year was out. <sigh> Unfortunately, there are no easy answers when school groups kids based on age and not ability.

Each kid is different and you kind of have to listen to your gut instincts on what you think is best. You know your son better than anyone else, and you are the best person to decide where he should be. Trust yourself.

Yes, I agree with Cathy: cross the college bridge when you come to it. Pud could always take college-level classes online or at a small college until he's a bit older, or take a gap year (or more) to travel or work at an internship. As many HG+ kids have trouble deciding what to be when they grow up, such options can be really good ones for some kids!

I'd recommend that you worry about what works for Pud now, not way down the line.

I have a few questions about homeschooling as an option. I know it's going to sound like I'm doing the hard-sell, so I'll apologize in advance. I promise that's not my intention. It's just that since homeschooling solved for us a lot of the very problems you mention, I have questions for you about your take on it.

What have you struggled over with him this summer? Can you explain what's gone wrong so that maybe we can see if homeschool is really just a bad fit for you and Pud (it could be!) or if there's something else going on? How are you doing the homeschooling this summer? What's your approach? Is it possible this is a conflict between the way you're teaching and his personality type rather than homeschooling in general? Is he resisting because school is out and he wants to play? (I'm getting some of that myself, actually.)

Why is your DH worried about structure and discipline? Unless you're a lax parent now, you probably won't be as a homeschooler. And not every kid needs a highly structured learning environment. Maybe Pud does--in which case, you'd need to provide that, obviously. But for our part, we're pretty laid back, and DS7 has done fine with it. Discipline is actually a lot less of a problem than it was when he was in a lousy school fit and a kid with a bad attitude. What's the source of concern there?

One key: before we decided to HS, I discussed the prospect with him and what would be expected of him, and I got his buy-in. This meant that he had to promise to do the work I assigned to him--or at least discuss any problems rationally and respectfully with me--as I was promising the state that we would educate him appropriately. I told him that if I couldn't do that, then he would have to go back to the public school. We had a bad day here or there, but he generally cooperated very nicely with me. When we had problems, it was almost always a sign that the material I was giving him wasn't where he needed it to be. I don't think he ever just rebelled for the sake of a power struggle. Of course, he did NOT want to go back to the bad fit of public school, so he was pretty highly motivated to cooperate...and naturally my kid may be very, very different from your kid. I realize that my experience may not translate at all to yours, but I think it's worth considering at least.

Another point: DS7 does not spend a whole lot more time on all his homeschool work than he spent on his boring, too-easy homework from the school. Getting him to finish that homework was like pulling teeth, and we fought about it all the time! But in homeschooling, you can follow the child's lead a lot more. Yes, there are some things they just have to do. But not as many as you might think because you have a lot more room to follow the lead of a strong-willed child than you get in a classroom. Seriously, I can't even express how much LESS of a struggle we have over schoolwork now than we used to have! I'm wondering what's causing your struggles--???

As for the sanity: are there any good homeschool groups in your area? Or would you have to go it alone? How about Scout troops or sports teams? Any kids in the neighborhood who might be available to play after school? There are kids out there if you know where to find them. I'd start with the homeschool groups. Personally, without a good group, I wouldn't be homeschooling myself. They're gold!

Finally, do you have child care? That's my other sanity saver. I couldn't do this without a couple of good, reliable sitters!

My vote would depend on your answers to these questions (if you choose to answer--you certainly don't have to!).

But I think it's safe to say that public school seems to me to be the worst choice, no matter what. Either homeschooling or private school sounds a lot better.

I hope you get good help!

We are in a very similar position, with DS just finishing first and needing at least a 2 year skip to be meaningful. If homeschool is just not seeming like the way to go right now, I would say definitely try the partial home school option with the skip to 3rd! Any school that offers you a 2 year skip off the bat sounds worth a try. Just for the record we are likely homeschooling in the fall (we're about 90% decided on that - our pretend summer homeschooling is going quite well even though we aren't doing a whole lot).

The college at such a young age thing seems really scary for us too and we are just going to cross those bridges as we get there. Kriston is right - there are always other things you can do to burn up a couple years. I don't see DS going to live at school until at least 17. And we have a number of good schools within 20 miles of us, so he has lots of options locally. We don't have any options similar to your part time/GT option, and if I had a similar option I might give it a try for a year and see how it goes. My son is socially very comfortable at age level (really does well with kids of all ages it seems), so it's not really clear that a 2+ year skip would be great and 1 wouldn't be enough to put a dent in the problem.

Anyway - best of luck with these decisions! Keep us posted!

I too say worry about the college later and look what you want for him right now. If it's challenging environment then it looks like you either need to go with a grade skip or homeschool. The skip to the 3rd grade sounds like a good idea, like Dottie says you still want to have your child in the top 10% of his new class. You can always move him to the 4th later on.

What does DS think about it? Does he want to go back? Does he have friends in school he would miss? What does he think about the other school? Would he like to have more time for himself?

Kriston has a good point about summer and the kids wanting and needing a break.

Good luck with your decision.

A retired GIFTED teacher says:

"I would definitely not put him in 4th grade or let him skip a grade. Challenging him is the problem, not accelerating. Even gifted students need a good solid foundation. The teacher can give him other work, if he pre-tests out of the subject. a 97 % does not necessarily mean "true gifted." 97% is the cut off for being tested in <SD>. There are other criteria. He will be tested in 2nd grade this year in <SD> and see if he makes the gifted program. If he does he will be challenged there.
I would think about sending him to 2nd grade, but letting the staff there know his gifts. Social skills are important for gifted children also."

Granted, all she knows about my child is that he scored 97 %tile on the End of 2nd grade ITBS.

HS: I don't understand my husband's objections to HS. My issue with it is that Pud would rather just read what he wants to read and do ALEKS on the computer than actually do what I tell him to do. For example, he takes piano lessons. He won't practice, no matter how much we reward, discipline, punish, encourage, motivate. He just decides he IS NOT going to do it. I did join a HS group and they have lots of activities. Pud doesn't know what he wants. No child care set up yet - unless I put him in a daycare, I haven't found an answer to that yet. I'm not sure what's causing our struggles now, either, Kriston. We set some goals for the summer - mostly things he wants to learn, with 2 things I threw in there that I know he needs to keep up with (like writing and math facts). But, one of his goals is to learn division. I taught him the basic "it means how many times will x go into y" or "how many 4s does it take to make 12". He got that quickly and did 1 1/2 pages or problems. He now refuses to do any more problems. So, maybe we've met the goal and maybe we haven't. Maybe that's part of the problem - defining what the goals actually mean.

As for last year, he made one friend, who, unfortunately, moved to Utah just after school was out. He hasn't even mentioned any of the other kids from school. He had an okay year - it was really hard for me. The teacher was totally resistant to making any changes. I saw that he was not being challenged. He said he liked school but it was a battle every morning to get him dressed and there. He would fall apart frequently at home. Well behaved everywhere but at home (which I saw as a sign of struggling at school to be a "first grader" with "first grade answers"). He says he'd like to HS because it wouldn't be so boring as getting dressed and getting to school every day. He'd like the grade skip because he'd learn new things. When I told him he had done well enough on the test to skip, he sang "I'm good, yeah, I'm good" (which lead to a discussion about arrogance).

I'm not worried so much about college per se, just thinking what long term ramifications are of skipping. It just seems scary. I also don't know how I'll pay for private school.

I have not gone above the principal yet. That was my next step but I couldn't get a meeting before school was out and now everyone is gone for the summer. They won't be back until Aug 11. If I go that route, which I still plan to do regardless of my choice, I don't see anything happening in time to help Pud for fall. It seems unfair to make him sit through 2nd grade (the first half of which is a review of 1st grade) while I meet with the muckety-mucks and try to get changes made.

I guess the way I am looking at it is that I feel too much pressure right now to make a good choice about HS or about advocating through the school district. Putting him in 3rd at the private seems like a decent short term solution while I figure out what to do next. That might mean working with DH to educate him more about what HS is. That might just mean letting things go for the summer (I'm out of town all next week and then we're all gone 2 weeks in August. Unfortunately, SCA starts before we get back from our trip (Pud will be with grandparents so they can take him to school) and the public school starts the Monday after we get back. I feel like I have to make a decision quickly, but maybe I don't. I don't know by when SCA needs a commitment. I guess we could just wait and do something at the last minute, even if that meant he didn't start either school on time.

All in all, I feel caught between a rock and a hard place. I keep telling myself to just let it go but it doesn't seem to be working. Thanks, all, for your comments and for "listening". Maybe I should just let SCA know that I think we'll be doing 3rd grade there and not make a commitment yet. I don't know. I'm very stressed about it and didn't realize how much until I typed this post.

{{{{Hugs}}}} for the stress! I've BTDT, and it's horrible. I'm so sorry you're going through it. Do remember that you're looking for the least-worst option, not perfection. Don't let your own fears of making a mistake make you crazy. If you're doing something for your son, if you're trying your best to do what he needs, then that's enough. Don't wind yourself up trying to be perfect or not make a mistake. Not only is it impossible, it's not necessary. You will make mistakes. All parents do. Just do your best and remember that nothing is irreversible. There may be a cost to reversing a decision, but you can change your mind if what you choose isn't working.

It will be okay!

FYI on the GT teacher: many teachers--GT teachers included--oppose grade skips unconditionally. Have you read "A Nation Deceived"? It's worth a look so that you get the other side of the story, a side backed with research instead of nothing but urban legend and fear. (For example, social skills often IMPROVE in grade-skipped children, since they are placed with kids who are more like true peers rather than age-only peers.) I don't think grade skips are for every HG+ child, but I wouldn't accept that teacher's view as correct either. She sounds like she has an agenda, and it isn't necessarily one that's in Pud's best interests!

You can get a copy of the report for free here: http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Nation_Deceived/

BTW, the teacher's comment about acceleration vs. challenging is nonsensical, I think. It says to me that she doesn't really understand HG+ kids. Kids who learn things the first time they see them often need both challenge and acceleration, and sometimes they get the challenge through the acceleration.

As for the homeschooling problems: first and foremost, is Pud buying into HSing? Does he want to HS?

I'm thinking it might be time for a heart-to-heart talk with him about his education. If he wants to do Aleks and read what he wants, then there are other things that must be done, too, at least at some point. It's just part of getting an education.

Now, I hesitate to suggest this because I got beaten over the head with it when I was trying to figure out how to make homeschooling work for us, and it annoyed me...but in your case, I think it's possible that you might need to deschool for a bit. What I mean is, if all he wants to do is Aleks and reading, then maybe that's okay for a while. Eventually you'll have to reintroduce the other things he needs to learn, but he doesn't have to get them right now. And if he was bored and frustrated with school last year, then maybe he needs some time to follow his interests and not be dictated to about learning at all. The idea is that once the pressure is off, eventually he'll get his curiosity back about other subjects, and then you can pursue that curiosity with him.

Another thought (for you to accept or ignore as you like): maybe the goal-setting you're doing is the problem.

When we started HSing, I asked DS7, "What do you want to learn?" He listed a bunch of things, and then I did my best to fit our approach to those topics into the traditional school subjects so that they "counted." But as far as he was concerned, he was just doing what he asked to do. As a result, he was very cooperative! Since he learns things so fast, I didn't really worry about mastery. I mean, he's 7. So what if he hasn't totally mastered geometry when we're through with it? He's had exposure to something new and he loves the learning. He'll get more geometry later. The beauty of the spiral structure of virtually all the curriculum out there, not to mention our entire educational system, is that it's fine if they get what they can now and keep moving, because you know they'll get it again later if they need it. That's doubly true of HSing, where you can review or redo whenever you need to, totally following your child's lead.

I guess what I'm saying is that maybe you're having trouble and getting rebellion from Pud because you're stressed about HSing and making it harder and more restrictive than it has to be because you're afraid you'll do a bad job. Maybe his rebellion is telling you that you're trying too hard to teach him instead of letting him learn.

(And I can say this because I just had a similar freak-out moment of my own when I got wound up about goals and not doing enough. Lorel pulled me back from my own personal ledge! )

So, what about pulling back on the requirements and goals and just seeing what he accomplishes on his own for a while? I think you might be surprised at what he does.

Just limit his TV and gaming time. That's the one thing that almost all HSers agree on when deschooling! They have to have the time and space to get bored so that they'll come back to learning on their own terms.

As for the piano: does he want to take piano? Has he taken piano before this summer, or is it new?

Hang in there. Keep talking. You'll figure it all out.

As an outsider... I think you just spelled out your husband's objections to HS. Just reading about your struggles with Pud and putting myself in your husbands shoes, I'm thinking, "I don't want my wife going through this stress."

As for what the retired Gifted teacher said, well, use your own judgement on that one. We have a friend who just retired a couple years ago from being an elementary school principal. When we talked to him about GS starting to excel in 1st/2nd grades he said, "Let him be a big fish in a small pond". When he saw GS8 reading Jr High novels last fall, he was a bit taken aback. For the record though, acceleration is not a good choice (yet!) for our GS8.

Squirt wrote:
"But, one of his goals is to learn division. I taught him the basic "it means how many times will x go into y" or "how many 4s does it take to make 12". He got that quickly and did 1 1/2 pages or problems. He now refuses to do any more problems. So, maybe we've met the goal and maybe we haven't. Maybe that's part of the problem - defining what the goals actually mean."

I see the same thing with my DS8. I call him the Concept Kid. He'll start figuring something out, learn it superficially, and is ready to move on. He doesn't want to put in the work to become proficient at it. This alarms me, perhaps unnecessarily. My thinking is generalizing this to when other things become harder - will he always give up and look for the next easy thing to do? Is this a result of lack of challenge? Is this typical 8yr old boy behavior and I'm making too much of it?