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    Joined: Feb 2010
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    Originally Posted by JonLaw
    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    It's not about social status relative to other parents for me but rather about whether getting my children into an AP class or a highly selective college will improve their life prospects. I have little reason to believe that Harvard et al offer a much better education than less famous schools. But anecdotally I'll say that one of the most intelligent and successful people I know
    (1) married someone from the same prestigious college, where they met
    (2) is a business partner with someone (who I consider less impressive) he met at a famous bsiness school

    Um.

    That's status.
    Yes, but of the children, not the parents.

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    Originally Posted by blackcat
    1 out of 8,000 people? 1 out of 20,000? So each medium sized town or school district would only have 1 or 2 of these kids.
    If you take into account that it's not evenly distributed, the news gets both better and worse. A fairly small university town could have enough faculty-spawn to have a decent sized sub-set who are HG. Ditto for other magnet places like Silicon Valley. But that means that medium sized towns that lack such attractors may be even worse off in terms of percentages.

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    Right. The problem then becomes, if you happen to live in one of those attractor locations, and have a child who is HG+, the clamoring to make MG children LOOK like HG+ ones is even fiercer-- because all of the parents are fantastically ego-driven with respect to their own intellectual prowess, and they have no problem at all living through their kids. It can really, get UGLY for those kids.

    (And no, I don't just mean the HG+ ones. Imagine being MG and having mom and dad leaning on you to be more like my kid all the time, and shaming you when you just can't...)

    I know a lot of Amy Chua's, in my RL. We're (geographically) a long, long way from the Ivies, and boy howdy do they cast a LONG, long shadow out here. It's really toxic and pervasive. My DH-- mine mind you, publically schooled and proud-- was a teeeeeeeensy bit miffed that DD didn't bother following through with applications at Reed, HMC, and MIT. Maybe Cornell and Princeton, which were also on her short list at one time or another.

    Why? Well, so that he could "share" her acceptances at work.

    sick NOBODY is immune to this when your kid is in high school. There is this parental culture of shaming that happens now in zip codes like mine. It's truly crazy.



    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    (And no, I don't just mean the HG+ ones. Imagine being MG and having mom and dad leaning on you to be more like my kid all the time, and shaming you when you just can't...)

    See? You feel bad for people with low I.Q.'s too!

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    Originally Posted by MegMeg
    Originally Posted by blackcat
    1 out of 8,000 people? 1 out of 20,000? So each medium sized town or school district would only have 1 or 2 of these kids.
    If you take into account that it's not evenly distributed, the news gets both better and worse. A fairly small university town could have enough faculty-spawn to have a decent sized sub-set who are HG. Ditto for other magnet places like Silicon Valley. But that means that medium sized towns that lack such attractors may be even worse off in terms of percentages.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24956222/temple-grandin-half-silicon-valleys-got-mild-autism

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    Originally Posted by JonLaw
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    (And no, I don't just mean the HG+ ones. Imagine being MG and having mom and dad leaning on you to be more like my kid all the time, and shaming you when you just can't...)

    See? You feel bad for people with low I.Q.'s too!

    So does my DD. Truly. She has friends that she really watches what she shares with-- and never moreso than around their parents, who are often all too eager to pry the info from her.

    Really not kidding.


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    In all honesty the more successfulish (non-inheritance) people I know are DINKs, opthamology/dermatology, etc..

    There's $600,000 in annual income.

    And radiation oncology...there's $500,000 in annual income.

    The wealthiest people I know inherited their mega-millions from real estate.

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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Originally Posted by JonLaw
    Um.

    That's status.
    Yes, but of the children, not the parents.

    Yet you admit that you're trying to create it for your own kids, so in your case, it's the parents. Parental status mongering is the entire point of the complaints on this thread.

    TBH, if people see status as an important goal, that's their choice and there are lots of prep schools and colleges where these people or their children can be statusy with each other. They can wear particular brands of clothes or drive certain cars so that everyone will know they can afford these things, and they can all talk about them and laugh that particular self-satisfied laugh and feel good about their stuff. Personally, I think that's kind of silly, but then again, I also have front-row seats to the damage it can do. You see, there is always someone whose Ferrari is nicer than yours, and when life is about being #1 or being a loser, most of these types lose at least one contest every day. frown

    No, what I've been saying is that there should also be a few places where HG+ types can go if they're more interested in learning stuff than in the status symbols. We have many special schools in this country: magnet schools for art and schools for disabled kids and schools for high achievers and themed charter schools and etc. I think we could also do with a few more places where HG+ kids could explore things in depth and at a suitable pace.

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    I'm a bit lost as this tread has gone in multiple directions. But..

    As a parents of a HG H.S. Freshman what I am most worried about is having my son give up and stop trying in H.S. I've seen other gifted kids do this, they just stop trying to jump through all the hoops. They are smart enough to look around and see it's a game they don't want to be playing. Particularly in competition to the hot housed kids. Gifted classes turn into AP classes that have huge homework loads. The CP (non gifted) classes are so boring they tune out and get frustrated with the other students. I am unsure how to keep my child challenged and therefor enjoying school, and not overwhelmed and stressed him out to the point he can't function. Grades for college admissions does add into the mix, because I'm convinced he will be happier at university. But he has to make it that far and not get derailed.

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    Precisely.

    Believe me, when your child is the one that can manage that AP load handily, and still wants to discuss things in more depth/detail, it makes them FEW friends with the hot-house/TigerCubs.

    Those kids all know that it's a COMPETITION first, and about learning only second (if at all).

    This is a real problem, because it means that it's no longer appropriate to focus on the intellectual aspects of the learning community-- because that might make some of the kids feel bad, or worse, LOOK bad by comparison. We can't have that. TigerCubs know it, too-- and they can be fairly nasty about it themselves if they know that they are signing up to catch it at home for not being #1 anymore.

    I have zero problem with kids that aren't PG, EG, or even garden variety GT being in an academic placement with my DD. What I have a problem with is that student raising a hand to complain about the pace, or to elbow my kid to 'hush' about a contradiction in the textbook, or an interesting gap in the historical record... discuss a definition, etc. Look, I know that this is technically out-of-level for the class as it perhaps currently exists. But still-- "Honors/AP" ought to mean something, and I think it not unreasonable that if some students find that pace/level inaccessible, that a different placement might be better for them, rather than telling my DD that she MUST conform, or insisting that the class be "made" to be accessible for those less able students so that the differences between them and the HG+ students in them is somehow less apparent to colleges, universities, and scholarship-awarding organizations.

    That's how the game works now, and it's revolting.




    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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