Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links
DITD Logo

Learn about the Davidson Academy’s online campus for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S.

The Davidson Institute for Talent Development is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Davidson Fellows Scholarship
  • Davidson Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute
  • DITD FaceBook   DITD Twitter   DITD YouTube
    The Davidson Institute is on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube!

    How gifted-friendly is
    your state?

    Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update

    Who's Online
    2 registered (Kai, twallace), 0 Guests and 220 Spiders online.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    OakHill, FannieKaplan, Chloe Nash, ziaurrahman, kf9009
    10920 Registered Users
    February
    Su M Tu W Th F Sa
    1 2 3 4 5 6
    7 8 9 10 11 12 13
    14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    21 22 23 24 25 26 27
    28
    Page 6 of 34 < 1 2 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 33 34 >
    Topic Options
    #186573 - 04/01/14 12:27 PM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: Old Dad]
    blackcat Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/23/13
    Posts: 2154
    Originally Posted By: Old Dad
    Originally Posted By: blackcat
    Our district wants both high ability and high achieving kids in their "magnet" for highly gifted. So they have to have a minimum composite score on the CogAT (or an IQ test) of 98th percentile AND achievement test results above the 98th percentile UNLESS IQ is over the 99.5th percentile or something in which case achievement testing doesn't matter.


    That doesn't sound like a program that is helping all gifted (and talented) students to their potential. It sounds to me like they're ignoring unmotivated gifted children, that's a shame as many students ignored and unchallenged by the system stop producing at a high level by the 3rd grade because by then they've grown bored out of their mind.


    I agree, and I think it's unfortunate because a lot of kids are bright enough to handle the material, but are being missed because of the selection process. I think it's a good idea to let high achievers in as long as they have a certain minimum cognitive ability score (either CogAT or IQ or some other ability test), but they put too much weight on achievement. My DD's WISC GAI is 150 and I was worried they would not let her in because she has already been accelerated and her math score is above the 99th percentile but her reading score is 97th percentile instead of 98th for her grade. I did actually have to argue with the g/t coordinator about it. Ultimately she got in not based on achievement but because of the WISC GAI being above the 139 composite they want, so she meets criteria per district written policy (the g/t coordinator doesn't like the policy and has been trying to change it). She told me that DD is "weak" in reading. Well, yeah, she's weak in reading because they do not teach reading above grade level! So how is she supposed to test several grade levels ahead on achievement tests if they are not teaching her at the correct level? It's infuriating. The only reason her math score is what they are looking for is because she likes working on sites like Khan Academy. A lot of kids don't have access to that.

    Top
    #186575 - 04/01/14 12:33 PM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: Old Dad]
    bluemagic Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/29/13
    Posts: 1489
    Originally Posted By: Old Dad
    A teacher with certification in gifted and talented education should know how to do the very thing for their students that they're in there for, to be DIFFERENTIATED for. If a GT teacher is attempting to give the same work to all students in the program, that's actually pretty laughable and completely defeats the whole mindset of differentiation. This is why I spoke about levels of service. Good GT teachers understand and practice this. If yours isn't, you should be asking why not.
    I am talking about a class/program my son took several years ago in 6th grade. The first two years it was good, but the last year of the program the teacher wasn't as differentiated. Yes the teacher did mostly give the same work to all the kids. But a large amount of the work was small group projects or open ended assignments. I am not the only one with this complaint about this particular class.

    Top
    #186581 - 04/01/14 12:52 PM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: JonLaw]
    Thomas Percy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/18/12
    Posts: 206
    Originally Posted By: JonLaw
    Originally Posted By: Thomas Percy
    I also don't believe only HG or PG students belong in the very top of colleges. If we are talking about graduate degrees in theoretical physics, then sure. But not a bachelor degree in most fields.


    I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.


    I am sure you understand it. But if not, it means it does not take a 140 IQ to get a bachelor degree from Harvard.

    Top
    #186583 - 04/01/14 12:59 PM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: HowlerKarma]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Interesting-- and, I think, highly related:

    Our Crazy College Crossroads
    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

    Top
    #186584 - 04/01/14 01:00 PM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: playandlearn]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3290
    Loc: California
    Originally Posted By: playandlearn
    I agree with you again. I personally value hard work more than "talent".


    I don't. I value talent a lot. I also value hard work. It's not like they're mutually exclusive or that people with very high IQs sit around talking about strategies for succeeding without working.

    Honestly, I get tired of PC dismissal of talent. Talent matters. Talent is huge. When we dismiss it, we risk ending up with crazed tiger parents who make their kids miserable and distort...oh, wait. frown

    Originally Posted By: playandlearn
    So it's fine with me to value high achievers over high IQs when resources are distributed.


    There are really a lot of holes in this statement.

    By this logic, we should toss aside kids with IQs past the 99th percentile because they haven't achieved according to a cookie-cutter definition created by someone who may not have been as smart as they kids being tossed aside (by a wide margin). And what about low and low-ish SES kids whose parents don't how to work the system? Should we ignore them too because they haven't "achieved?"

    Originally Posted By: playandlearn
    But the point should really be to accommodate each student's need and unique learning abilities and styles, instead of having a few cookie cutters, each for a loosely defined group. Is IQ 119 really that different from 121? Yet a line is drawn somewhere and each group is given a cookie cutter.


    Yes, 119 is effectively the same as 121, but both are very different from the 99th percentile and above. People with very high cognitive ability think differently from pretty much everyone else, and the rarer your talents get, the more you need a different kind of learning environment in order to develop properly (more depth, move more quickly). I agree that IQ tests aren't perfect, but they're reasonable and are pretty good predictors of different thought patterns.

    Top
    #186585 - 04/01/14 01:01 PM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: Thomas Percy]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3290
    Loc: California
    Originally Posted By: Thomas Percy
    Originally Posted By: JonLaw
    Originally Posted By: Thomas Percy
    I also don't believe only HG or PG students belong in the very top of colleges. If we are talking about graduate degrees in theoretical physics, then sure. But not a bachelor degree in most fields.


    I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.


    I am sure you understand it. But if not, it means it does not take a 140 IQ to get a bachelor degree from Harvard.


    Maybe not, but it should.


    Edited by Val (04/01/14 01:02 PM)

    Top
    #186586 - 04/01/14 01:07 PM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: Thomas Percy]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    Originally Posted By: Thomas Percy
    Originally Posted By: JonLaw
    Originally Posted By: Thomas Percy
    I also don't believe only HG or PG students belong in the very top of colleges. If we are talking about graduate degrees in theoretical physics, then sure. But not a bachelor degree in most fields.


    I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.


    I am sure you understand it. But if not, it means it does not take a 140 IQ to get a bachelor degree from Harvard.


    I didn't know if if you were talking about "top of the college class" or "top colleges", both of which are true.

    Top
    #186587 - 04/01/14 01:10 PM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: Val]
    Old Dad Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/30/12
    Posts: 423
    Originally Posted By: Val
    Maybe not, but it should.


    Oh? Why is that? Anyone that can complete the courses required and make passing grads deserves the diploma regardless of whether it was easy or hard for them, whether their blessing came from IQ or simply a killer work ethic. In the end, the work done is what counts, not how that work was achieved so long as it was done honestly and with integrity.


    Edited by Old Dad (04/01/14 01:10 PM)

    Top
    #186588 - 04/01/14 01:13 PM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: JonLaw]
    Thomas Percy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/18/12
    Posts: 206
    Originally Posted By: JonLaw
    Originally Posted By: Thomas Percy
    Originally Posted By: JonLaw
    Originally Posted By: Thomas Percy
    I also don't believe only HG or PG students belong in the very top of colleges. If we are talking about graduate degrees in theoretical physics, then sure. But not a bachelor degree in most fields.


    I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.


    I am sure you understand it. But if not, it means it does not take a 140 IQ to get a bachelor degree from Harvard.


    I didn't know if if you were talking about "top of the college class" or "top colleges", both of which are true.


    I actually do think it probably takes both talent and hard work to be tops in class in a good college. I know a couple of people who ranked 1st or 2nd in two different Ivy League Universities, and they are really really smart.

    Top
    #186589 - 04/01/14 01:13 PM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: Old Dad]
    Thomas Percy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/18/12
    Posts: 206
    Originally Posted By: Old Dad
    Originally Posted By: Val
    Maybe not, but it should.


    Oh? Why is that? Anyone that can complete the courses required and make passing grads deserves the diploma regardless of whether it was easy or hard for them, whether their blessing came from IQ or simply a killer work ethic. In the end, the work done is what counts, not how that work was achieved so long as it was done honestly and with integrity.


    Agree completely.

    Top
    Page 6 of 34 < 1 2 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 33 34 >


    Moderator:  M-Moderator 
    Recent Posts
    How to advocate for child who tries to blend in?
    by aeh
    Today at 07:32 AM
    Making mindless mistakes
    by aeh
    Today at 07:22 AM
    What does reading at a high school level mean?
    by indigo
    Today at 06:23 AM
    Accommodations for kindergarten?
    by aquinas
    Yesterday at 09:40 PM
    Misdiagnosis of 2e?
    by twallace
    Yesterday at 08:21 PM
    Davidson Institute Twitter