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    #186502 - 04/01/14 07:31 AM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: KathrynH]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    Originally Posted By: KathrynH
    Originally Posted By: JonLaw

    I generally feel bad for people with I.Q.s that low.


    Why? There are many people my heart aches for - people with chronic illnesses, people who have lost children, people who have lost sources of income. But people with an average to above-average IQ? I feel like I'm missing something.


    Don't worry, I feel worse for people with chronic illnesses.

    Particularly MS and brittle diabetics.

    And anyone who has to breathe polluted Chinese air.

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    #186503 - 04/01/14 07:35 AM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: HowlerKarma]
    momoftwins Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/27/13
    Posts: 156
    Isn't an IQ of 120 about 90%? An IQ that high is probably high enough to get good grades without trying very hard and do well in AP courses with studying, but avoid many of the downfalls that the gifted children run into in school. It is high enough that children with that IQ should be able to pursue almost any path they want, if they are willing to work.

    But the article isn't about gifted children versus non-gifted, just the fact that the parents are pushing their children to succeed.

    Parents do push too much these days, but they are doing it because they are trying to help their children succeed with the end result being a "good" job and a lifestyle similar to the one they had growing up, if that is what the child wants.

    The problem is that the world has changed dramatically since most of the parents went to college, and the path to sucess is much more difficult than it used to be. There are fewer white collar jobs, and it is much harder to get hired. Many of the parents have learned this the hard way during the recession, or have seen what happens to their friend's children as they try to enter the workforce.

    It has definitely gotten out of control. Unfortunately, I do understand not wanting to have one's child be the "test case" to see if "pulling back" and taking fewer honors classes, going to a less well-known school or college, etc. makes a difference in the outcome of their life.

    That being said, we are trying very hard to keep from falling into that trap.





    Edited by momoftwins (04/01/14 07:36 AM)

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    #186504 - 04/01/14 07:37 AM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: KathrynH]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2595
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: KathrynH
    Originally Posted By: JonLaw

    I generally feel bad for people with I.Q.s that low.


    Why? There are many people my heart aches for - people with chronic illnesses, people who have lost children, people who have lost sources of income. But people with an average to above-average IQ? I feel like I'm missing something.

    I must be too. I have family members whose IQ I do not estimate to be higher than 120 but who have lived full lives and are not pitiable. My middle child had a WPPSI IQ measured in the 110s by the school. I do think he is less likely than his older brother to become (say) a professor, but he is a lovable and energetic boy that no one need feel sorry for.


    Edited by Bostonian (04/01/14 09:52 AM)
    Edit Reason: added "less"

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    #186509 - 04/01/14 07:53 AM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: HowlerKarma]
    psychland Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/27/14
    Posts: 69
    To me an IQ of 120's is really the sweet spot. You are bright enough to do whatever you want to do in terms of work and school and you are much less likely to experience anxiety, depression etc, which is typical for HG children. You are also more likely to be well liked and get along well with peers. I certainly would not think of this group at one to be pitied:).

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    #186511 - 04/01/14 08:00 AM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: psychland]
    playandlearn Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/14/08
    Posts: 309
    Can't agree more!! I think this group of people are very likely to be able to fully use the resources and adjust well in the society.

    Plus, a person's IQ is largely something one is born with. No need to feel emotional about it in positive or negative ways--it's not something that we chose or worked for, and honestly, I don't see it affecting the qualify of life that much.

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    #186512 - 04/01/14 08:03 AM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: psychland]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Originally Posted By: psychland
    To me an IQ of 120's is really the sweet spot. You are bright enough to do whatever you want to do in terms of work and school and you are much less likely to experience anxiety, depression etc, which is typical for HG children. You are also more likely to be well liked and get along well with peers. I certainly would not think of this group at one to be pitied:).


    I envy them in many ways, actually.


    Alternatively, I resent the fact that they don't have much understanding of what it means to be "way brighter" than themselves, since they enjoy their advantages over the mean so very well. Grr. "Relax! Just ENJOYYYYY it all" they say. mad They don't appreciate having it pointed out that life happens to fit them straight off the rack, and they ought to shut up when we complain about the price of tailoring these days.


    Honestly, I don't see this article's thrust as being directed in ANY way shape or form to HG+ kids or their parents. Our kids are the ones that IB programs, multiple AP classes, dual enrollment, and the like are actually intended to serve well. Er-- or originally they were, anyway, before growth mindset ate the bell curve.

    The problem is that parents of kids who are 110-125 THINK that they can make their kids HG by working them a little harder.

    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

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    #186513 - 04/01/14 08:25 AM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: HowlerKarma]
    blackcat Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/23/13
    Posts: 2154
    This made me think of a friend of mine who is here in the U.S. (she and her husband) on a work visa from India. They've been trying to get green cards for years and had children here. The mom rants and raves about how apathetic parents are here about academics and all people care about is sports. She does a LOT at home in terms of academics and I'm sure I look like a major slacker to her, while other people (like DS's old teacher) would view me as a tiger mother, since I after-school my kids to some extent.
    It makes me think of Asians in general and the culture of pushing academics or performance in various activities. Found this article which I thought was interesting. Strangely, the mom complains about the sports culture here, but she has had her DD in gymnastics, swim team, dance, etc. Although she doesn't seem too competitive with any of the sports, the academics seem much more important. I would love to learn more about Asian cultures and the impact the "pushy" parenting has on kids. How is it the same and different from the U.S.?
    http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/artic...ard-doesnt-work

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    #186514 - 04/01/14 08:26 AM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: playandlearn]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    Originally Posted By: playandlearn
    Plus, a person's IQ is largely something one is born with. No need to feel emotional about it in positive or negative ways--it's not something that we chose or worked for, and honestly, I don't see it affecting the qualify of life that much.


    These statements depend on certain metaphysical assumptions that may or may not be actually true.

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    #186515 - 04/01/14 08:33 AM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: blackcat]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    Originally Posted By: blackcat
    It makes me think of Asians in general and the culture of pushing academics or performance in various activities. Found this article which I thought was interesting. Strangely, the mom complains about the sports culture here, but she has had her DD in gymnastics, swim team, dance, etc. Although she doesn't seem too competitive with any of the sports, the academics seem much more important. I would love to learn more about Asian cultures and the impact the "pushy" parenting has on kids. How is it the same and different from the U.S.?
    http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/artic...ard-doesnt-work


    Um, this is German too, even after they've been in the U.S. for a few generations.

    So-called "protestant work ethic".

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    #186517 - 04/01/14 08:42 AM Re: Parenting arms race article [Re: HowlerKarma]
    blackcat Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/23/13
    Posts: 2154
    My family background is 100 percent German and I personally haven't seen this, not in terms of academics at least. Everyone was into farming until the mid twentieth century and there may have been a work ethic there, but not in terms of excelling in school, going to elite colleges, etc.

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