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    #184660 - 03/12/14 02:48 PM Re: How are gifted identified in your schools? [Re: Bostonian]
    puffin Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/11/12
    Posts: 2035
    All the kids I know of identified gifted were identified because their parents paid to have them tested. There are apparently some extension things as the kids get older that they are tested in to but we are not there yet. Of course by the time they do test them for that they have had 3 years to beat them down.

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    #184667 - 03/12/14 03:29 PM Re: How are gifted identified in your schools? [Re: BlessedMommy]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4922
    Quote:
    ... gifted math across the district -- 75% boys vs 25% girls. There is not a large difference for gifted LA, although girls outweigh boys. I feel like there must be some flaw in their math identification as the girls aren't being recognized... The director of gifted ed did say that the version of the CoGAT that was used in the past was biased toward boys.
    How is "biased" to be understood in this context?

    - Simply that more boys were identified?

    - That the sets of tasks to perform, while the same for boys and girls, were inherently more appealing to "stereotypical" boys and/or especially off-putting for "stereotypical" girls?

    - That girls were assigned a relatively more difficult form of the test (required to perform more steps, and/or at a higher level, and/or in less time, etc)?


    If one expects the number of pupils identified to resemble a statistical representation of the population, one must be careful not to apply this wrongly by expecting the data points of each individual class to match this statistic (such as by applying quotas).

    An analogy to the weather: A thermometer is the tool used to measure the daily high/low temperature. This yields a set of data from which statistical averages for each season, month, and day are calculated for comparison to each prior year's measurements. There is no inclination to cap daily high temperature measurement readings or make them match the statistical daily high average. There is no inclination to cease recording record low temperatures or make them match the statistical nightly low average. If the temperatures for a season, month, or day do not match the statistical average, there is no inclination to declare the measurement tool broken; The tool is broken when it always measures the same and does not respond to differences. By taking consistent measurements over time, meaningful trends may emerge: Are daily highs moderating? Are nightly lows fluctuating more widely? Are seasonal temps varying in roughly a 4 year cycle? If one were to force temperature readings to match statistical averages one would miss measuring the trends as they occur.

    If a teacher/school/district were to force gifted identification to match statistics, one would miss measuring the trends as they occur.

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    #184678 - 03/12/14 05:31 PM Re: How are gifted identified in your schools? [Re: BlessedMommy]
    BlessedMommy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/20/13
    Posts: 105
    To answer a few questions...

    About bias: The director of gifted ed didn't go into detail, but what I interpreted it to mean is that the questions on that version of the CoGAT were skewed so as to be answered more correctly by boys than girls.

    Is there a trend?: This 75/25 split was not just for one year's data, but a trend over time. What points to me that something is amiss is that neighboring districts that have a similar population of people (and thus I would expect a similar profile of students) have more of an equal number of boys and girls in their gifted math class.

    Outside testing: Our district will not use outside testing to determine placement. However, we were able to use my DD10's EXPLORE test results to get her retested on the CoGAT to see if she would now qualify for the gifted math. They did not have the MAP test when my daughter was in 2nd grade and testing for gifted math, so I suspect they gave even more weight to the CoGAT then.

    Middle school girls: They also said that they see the trend as girls get older they tend to drop out of the gifted math classes which is probably partially due to peer pressure as someone else stated. That is definitely another problem to tackle, but I think it is separate than the initial identifying in 2nd grade.

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    #184681 - 03/12/14 06:22 PM Re: How are gifted identified in your schools? [Re: BlessedMommy]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4922
    Quote:
    ... About bias... I interpreted it to mean is that the questions on that version of the CoGAT were skewed so as to be answered more correctly by boys than girls.
    As in... the sets of tasks to perform, while the same for boys and girls, were inherently more appealing to "stereotypical" boys and/or especially off-putting for "stereotypical" girls? Personally, I would explore this topic with the director of gifted ed who originally mentioned the test's gender bias to you, so you may clarify this understanding/interpretation.

    Quote:
    ... 75/25 split was not just for one year's data, but a trend over time.
    Combining this with "across the district" as mentioned in the original post... if this 75/25 split is the trend for the relatively same population of students as they advance through the grades (about 80% of students being the same gifted math class rising one grade each year, while about 20% of the gifted math population is replaced annually as identified incoming 3rd graders replace 8th graders)... the relative stability of the statistical split may be expected from year to year.

    Quote:
    What points to me that something is amiss is that neighboring districts that have a similar population of people (and thus I would expect a similar profile of students) have more of an equal number of boys and girls in their gifted math class.
    You may wish to make an inquiry of the gifted programs at the neighboring districts you are referring to, and learn whether they are utilizing quotas, as well as what their identification/qualification criteria are. It is often much better to be guided by facts than a series of hunches.

    Quote:
    Our district will not use outside testing to determine placement. However, we were able to use my DD10's EXPLORE test results to get her retested on the CoGAT to see if she would now qualify for the gifted math. They did not have the MAP test when my daughter was in 2nd grade and testing for gifted math, so I suspect they gave even more weight to the CoGAT then.
    You may wish to inquire of your director of gifted ed to learn whether the CogAT was weighed more heavily than 60% under the prior identification criteria. Again, best to have the facts as you prepare for any advocacy.

    Quote:
    They also said that they see the trend as girls get older they tend to drop out of the gifted math classes which is probably partially due to peer pressure as someone else stated.
    A survey of the parent(s) of the child leaving the gifted math class, and of the child leaving the gifted math class may help gather facts about the gifted math class and the reasons why students choose to leave it.

    Quote:
    That is definitely another problem to tackle, but I think it is separate than the initial identifying in 2nd grade.
    Agreed!

    Good luck with this... there is some good detective work and fact-gathering to be done here. Many may benefit.

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    #184682 - 03/12/14 06:31 PM Re: How are gifted identified in your schools? [Re: BlessedMommy]
    Nautigal Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/22/09
    Posts: 1032
    I don't actually know what the usual method might be. DS was so far out there that the school just saw him coming in preschool and they gave him the WJIII to see where he was and document it for having him skip kindergarten.

    It wasn't until DD was in first grade that we first heard them say they usually don't do any identifying for gifted until third grade! They just have the sense to recognize the real outliers before that. DD isn't one of those, so she's just on normal track so far.

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    #184685 - 03/12/14 07:13 PM Re: How are gifted identified in your schools? [Re: BlessedMommy]
    chay Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/07/13
    Posts: 448
    Loc: Canada
    We have 4 public school boards to pick from where I live - English Catholic, English Public, French Catholic, and French Public. You have to have at least one francophone parent to get into the French schoolboards. The English boards both do French Immersion for those that want French but don't speak it at home.

    English Catholic screen nominated kids in grade 3 with the CCAT (Canadian Cognitive Abilities Test). Teachers or parents can nominate students. You can also submit private test results (WISC or SB). Qualified kids get a one day a week pull out.

    English Public screen nominated kids in SK (and I think in grade 4) with the CCAT. Teachers or parents can nominate and you can also test privately (WISC or SB). Qualified kids have the option of full time congregated.

    The two French boards don't have gifted programs and don't test AFAIK.

    In a system where it is up to parents to test it wouldn't shock me that more boys get tested privately. I know 4 identified gifted kids my DS7's age and all were "discovered" the same way, they were all urged to do ADHD evaluations privately and they came out gifted instead. Of the 4, 3 are boys. We haven't tested our DD5 yet but I suspect she will also qualify. So far she's surviving kindergarten without the same drama we had with DS. We'll find out soon if she meets the criteria.

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    #184698 - 03/13/14 06:23 AM Re: How are gifted identified in your schools? [Re: BlessedMommy]
    Sweetie Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/05/11
    Posts: 669
    For one child his fourth grade teacher nominated him for testing (he had been homeschooled before that). Testing was IQ testing plus achievement scores. Placed gifted.

    For 2nd child I nominated him in K - he didn't pass. I nominated him again in first. IQ plus achievement. He was placed middle of 2nd grade.

    Neither child gets pullout classes. Younger son gets in classroom differentiation, one of his two teachers is gifted endorsed and is supposed to be meeting his needs. They also skipped him a grade this year. Have no idea if the id more girls than boys because don't know who is gifted.

    Older son is in a special program at middle school that is one class big (one of these classes per grade levels) 22 or so kids...rather than mixing it up every period randomly like most of the kids do they go from class to class together as a unit (other than electives). Each teacher that this group goes to is gifted endorsed and most of the class is staffed gifted and get in automatically, but they fill the remaining spots by high test scores (achievement) and a selection process including teacher recs, essay, interview, etc. middle school program is 75% girls.


    Edited by Sweetie (03/13/14 06:25 AM)
    _________________________
    ...reading is pleasure, not just something teachers make you do in school.~B. Cleary

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    #184701 - 03/13/14 06:40 AM Re: How are gifted identified in your schools? [Re: BlessedMommy]
    2GiftedKids Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/03/14
    Posts: 71
    Our school uses an OLSAT screener at the end of 2nd grade to select kids for further testing in 3rd via a Stanford 10. So for our son, the school initiated the testing. No pull-outs right now as they are doing differentiation only.

    Our daughter somehow didn't pass or didn't get given (no clear paperwork in her file denoting which happenstance), and we found out that we could nominate her for testing. She's in 7th grade. They gave her the Stanford 10 and then a slimmed down Woodcock-Johnson. She got identified based on her uberhigh math scores on the Stanford 10. She just got moved from 7th grade math to a 9th grade algebra class this semester.

    We have a very small student population though --- only about 575 kids K-12 in our lil burg. They try to accommodate the best they can.

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    #184703 - 03/13/14 06:50 AM Re: How are gifted identified in your schools? [Re: BlessedMommy]
    momoftwins Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/27/13
    Posts: 156
    Our school gives the OLSAT to all first graders as a screener, and then students selected for further testing are given an IQ test plus achievement testing. Parents can also request testing directly for their children, and teachers can nominate students for testing as well.

    Students are then given GIEPs.

    A pull-out program begins in 2nd grade.

    My children do get differentiated instruction in several subjects because of their GIEPs, but I don't know what the "typical" GIEP has in it.


    Edited by momoftwins (03/13/14 06:53 AM)

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    #184706 - 03/13/14 07:06 AM Re: How are gifted identified in your schools? [Re: BlessedMommy]
    Diamondblue Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 05/07/13
    Posts: 45
    Loc: FL
    Our district uses the RIAS to identify gifted kids. Students have to get 130 or greater to qualify for one-day-a-week gifted pull out.

    To be able to be placed in a full-time gifted classroom, students must have four of the following five things:
    1. 125 or higher on the RIAS (huh?)
    2. Grade of A in all core subjects for the past semester
    3. 97th percentile (I think) on SAT-10 or a certain score on the FCAT
    4. A "very superior" rating on their "portfolio"(I've asked what the "portfolio" is comprised of and if it is an actual physical thing, but I've been unable to get a good answer from any of the four people I've asked).
    5. A certain ranking on a gifted characteristics checklist. (Said checklist weighs heavily on qualities of extroverted leadership and students have to have 125 out of 135 possible points if I remember correctly).

    All items for full time gifted placement are equally weighted.

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