Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Recommended Resources Lego Mindstorms/ FLL/ Lego Engineering

Since I brought it up under the Geometry Resources thread, and since others are talking about it elsewhere, I thought I'd start a whole new thread just for Lego Mindstorms...

I'm just about to buy the "retail" Mindstorms NXT kit (#8527, $244 at Amazon)... rather than the official FLL Mindstorms kit (#979792, $315 through FLL), mostly because between what we already own (bins and bins including a complete RCX kit from way back when) and the fact that our proposed team will have three NXT kits and one RCX among us, and plenty of extra parts, I'm thinking we can make up the difference on our own. I'm also ordering the NXT Zoo book as a fun summer introduction for the team, and I've already downloaded the "extra parts you need" list, which I think we've got covered..... I hope!

Anyway, what else would anyone suggest? I won't be able to keep myself from hitting "submit" for much longer, so talk fast!

Also on the Lego Engineering front, we did the "Elementary Engineering 1" curriculum using kit #9630 (Simple and Motorized Machines Set) with a group last fall and it was pretty fun... although DS has done simple machines with K'nex several times already, and there wasn't a lot more to it than that. I think the 2nd part ("Elementary Engineering 2") would be much more interesting, and probably doable for any kid who knew the simple machines already, without the first semester at all. It sounds like a different thing from what RPM9 was describing -- we had trebuchets, but no balloon cars (rubber band cars yes, but not balloon) and I don't see the carpet sweeper... So there might be another one or several out there!

We're new to all this Lego stuff. I'm considering starting a FLL team, since there doesn't seem to be one about for DS7 to join unless I start one, though there seems to be some interest in the local GT homeschooling community if the e-lists I belong to are any indication. Apparently no one wants the responsibility for running the show, though they may join if I start a team. *sigh*

Anyway, I'm reading this thread with interest and would appreciate any tips from anyone who can steer us in a good starting direction. We have no "fancy" Lego kits yet: just the basic bricks so far.

For a FLL team, do the kids all provide their own Lego kits? How does it work? When I see $200+ prices, I get a bit nervous about the financial commitment...especially if I'm coaching and expected to provide for more than just my own child!

Well I've only ever done JFLL before... It's cheaper, but a little more weighted toward "cute" and away from "challenging", especially at the higher ends of the age range. Not bad, just lighter. We did that with a four-boy team last year and had a lot of fun. The kit was about $100 and we shared the cost and then re-sold it at the end and shared the earnings, so it came out even.

This year we're proposing to do the FLL level, but from what I can tell four kids isn't enough (just workload-wise), so we're looking to add some. I think 8 seems about right... So the $200 registration and $65 setup kit will be split 8 ways (if I can pin down 8 people!) which isn't so bad. The official Mindstorms kit is $315 I think, and I'm guessing it has extra parts, although it is SO HARD to figure those things out from the website!! grrr... Anyway. I'm hoping we can make it on the retail version of NXT plus what we already own, but that means we're depending on two families' personal Legos (mine and one other) for our team use. On the plus side, we don't have to buy more for the team, and we don't have to figure out how to divvy them up at the end. On the minus side, parts could be lost. I'm completely OCD about that, and will be inventory-ing regularly, but it does make me nervous. I hate lost parts.

So our own financial outlay will be to buy our own Mindstorms kit (which I'd be doing anyway), and 1/8 of the registration and setup, which comes to about $33. Not too bad.

Take all this with a grain of salt though... I'm only starting out with the FLL level!

We'd probably go with JFLL ourselves for the first year, so as to stick a toe in instead of diving in. (See how much of a newbie I am! I didn't even think to specify between the "regular" and the "junior" leagues!)

Your advice is extremely valuable, Erica, salt or no salt! Thanks!

Oh, we did the carpet sweeper. It is in the Science and Tech kit which was renamed end of last year I believe.

That is why I did JFLL last year, to get my toe in the water. I think we'll do another year of JFLL, since DS is 8yrs old, and move into FLL when he's 9yrs old.

May I ask: what's involved in starting and running a JFLL team? What's the time commitment? How long does the commitment last? Can parents share the time burden, or does there have to be a consistency of coaching from one person?

Big thanks for this insight!

And please return to Erica's questions! I don't want to hijack the thread!

What is FLL? All this Lego stuff seems great but sooo expensive. (Also the Zome stuff). I'm not sure where to start. We've just got regular lego bricks and the Mars Mission Command Base. Pud is going to Lego camp this week and building and racing cars but he hasn't asked for any of it yet. I'll have to think on it.

My *totally inexperienced* understanding of it is that it's kind of like robotics engineering with Legos, so it's good for younger kids to start on, especially the engineer-y types, like my son. FLL stands for "First Lego League."

Here's the website I was directed to for info: http://www.firstlegoleague.org/default.aspx?pid=70 From there I found a local contact to ask about teams.

I don't know if that helps at all...

Thanks! Great help!

My JFLL team which consisted of 4 boys (all 7yrs old except my 4yr old). We met Sundays for 2hrs. I won't do that again. It cut too much into family time considering we have soccer on Saturdays and Sundays. The boys only get to see their dad on the weekend so next year, we'll have to meet during the week. But I tell you, with all the sports (kids doing multiple sports except mine) it's very hard to get them all together.

Be ware, some FLL competitions are in November or December so the season can be shorter. Our exhibition for JFLL (non-competitive - each time got an award for what they were best at) and the FLL competition was Feb 10 so our season was much longer than most.

JFLL: the kit last year for the challenge was the Science and Technology kit sold by LEGO Education. If you can't find it, let me know b/c it was recently renamed. I bought kid since I planned on keeping it. This kit is a hybrid of basic LEGO bricks and Technic parts.

FLL: the LEGO MINDSTORMS robotics kit is mostly Technic pieces. The engineering is different from the RCX system (LEGO bricks). I've read several places that younger kids have a larger learning curve for Technic but I didn't see that w/ my 4yr old and 7yr old but the 4yr old has amazing fine motor skills.

If you want to get a feel for FLL competition, the author of "The Mayan Adventure" has a summer challenge. It's the Mars BAse Command challenge. It's all done at home and you can upload photos and challenge times to the website.

Here is a good blog. http://www.thenxtstep.blogspot.com/
Here is the link for Mars BAse Command Challenge. http://www.marsbasecommand.com/

I had the Mars Base command mat printed at staples today for $4. It has the look and feel of a FLL mat but smaller and paper so easy to roll up and put away. I think this will be perfect for us to get our feet wet at home in an FLL-like format. You download the mission for free. If you decide to do it, it's $14.95 for the book which contains the design specs for the items which go on the mat that the robot will have to manipulate.

Brian Davis at the NXTSTep blog does some amazing stuff with datalogging and the NXT. My son did something similar for his science fair project and it went very well. LEGO Education sells a lot more stuff for the education side. I have two of LEGO Eds temperature sensors which can be used to test if snow is really a good insulator, if coffee mugs are good insulators, you can use to measure how far the temp changes every time you open the fridge....it's endless. Vernier also produces alot of sensors to be used w/ NXT as well. I also have the Compass sensor which we had great fun introducing a compass, locating items based on compass readings etc. My next purchase will likely be an infrared sensor which you use w/ an infrared-emitting ball to play Robo-soccer. Robo-soccer isn't as popular here in the US as it is in Europe but I know my boys will love it. I'm sure the programming will be quite challenging but they will learn tons.

We did one 2-hour meeting a week for JFLL last year and that was fine... My main concern about having a too-small team is that I know someone will drop out and I really don't want to have to pressure the kids to finish, especially since we have a late-November deadline here -- like 12 weeks total! (eek!)

There is a research component too. I can't speak to the FLL level research (Dottie?) but the JFLL was a fair bit of work entirely aside from the building. We have another team in our homeschool group who really excels at the research end of things, but I know they also put a huge amount of time and energy into it.

Our Lego Engineering must have been a different thing altogether... That's one thing I can't stand about the whole Lego system... it's so hard to tell what's what and whether you're getting what you intend! Just on all the different kits called "Mindstorms" you have a ridiculous range of possibilities. *sigh*

SO -- I think I'm hitting "submit" in ten minutes... wish me luck!

Did it! Now we're even Dazey

I got the NXT, the Mayan Adventure, and the NXT Zoo book... and they're supposed to ship next Tuesday, so I might have them within a week! Woohoo!!

We're going to get nothing else done this summer, aren't we! LOL

I hope it's all good stuff!

For those thinking of coaching FLL teams. Take a look at this. http://www.legoeducation.com/store/...=1459&c=0&t=0&l=0&bhcp=1

I've not seen it personally but it's from Jim Kelly, it's probably pretty darn good.

And just to add to the confusion - I believe DS' robotics leads to Robocup, not First. As I understand the difference, the competitions focus on autonomous as opposed to remote control operated robots. Supposedly, more concentration on programming, less on building. He's not there yet, but here's a link to robocup: http://rcj.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu/

And thanks for the link to Mars Base Command.

Wow, thanks for all the great info on FLL and JFLL. Is everyone that is posting working with sons? I have two girls I have been thinking might like this. They had a mini display at the science museum that was a very watered down version and you could build very simple robots and program them to do two things. Both girls were very interested, except is was so basic it was almost confusing if that makes sense.
Anyone have any experience with girls participating in Mindstorms?

The FLL is not remote control robots. the robots navigate around the mat. They can come back to home base to have a program run on the brick or to change attachments. Generally, the FLL challenges are not done with only one program but rather several programs which kids run with specific buttons on the brick or by a menu. But they are not controlling the robots movements via a remote control.

For my JFLL team, the theme was energy. The boys had to pick something in a room in the house and determine where it's energy came from. My team did an energy audit of the kitchen. they chose the blender. So we determined where our electricity comes from - not easy b/c of the deregulation of the power company. Much to my shock, the power plant was very excited to have the team come. they had this whole presentation ready for them including snacks and drinks. We all got official manager hard hats to keep and had a tour of the plant. the boys then went home and built out of legos, where the electricity comes from, how it gets to our house, right down to the blender. After the competition, we took the whole LEGO creation back to the powerplant so the boys could show it to the engineers. we had lunch with them all and had a great time. Of course, being a company, the took photos and wrote an article for their national company newspaper. lol.

Oh and the LEGO creation had to use at least one simple machine and have at least one moving part. I basically let the team do all the work. However, when we got to hte exhibition, where most teams were school teams, the posters were all typed up, no spelling errors, perfect grammar, etc ...

No girls here but there were several all girls teams at the JFLL/FLL competition as well as mixed-gender teams.

the think about FLL is that there can be something for everyone. Some teams are quite large w/ 8-10kids. Some kids don't like building but like programming. Some will like building but not programming. SOme kids do most of the research. The discussion w/ the judges can be an important part of the competition especially if you're lacking points on the robot performance end - from what I've gathered.

Also, for those interested, 4H now has LEGO MINDSTORMS clubs as well as K'nex clubs. they are solely centered on those two platforms (you don't have to have cows lol). So even if your local 4H doesn't already have one, you can contact them about starting one. If they don't know what to do, I can put them in touch w/ the head of our 4H here. the LEGO Mindstorms ran an ad and got twice as many kids as they expected. they were scrambling to try to get more robot kits.

My friend runs a robotics club. I think she strives for 1 kit per 3 kids at the most.

Thanks Dazey. Yes, I know that FLL is not remote control robots. The museum set up was not remote control, it was similar to Mindstorms, just very simplified.

I just looked at the JFLL challenge and I think the girls are beyond that. Does anyone know any age restictions for FLL?

Still looking for girl parents who are involved!!!!!!!!!

I see Girl Scouts has partnered with First, that looks pretty interesting:

http://www.girlscouts.org/news/news_releases/2008/first_partnership.asp

KAR1200 - when you say "Elementary Engineering 2" are you referring to this product? http://www.legoeducation.com/store/...y=20&ID=1337&c=0&t=0&l=0

or this one? http://www.legoeducation.com/store/detail.aspx?pl=6&ID=1468&c=0&t=0&l=0

Dazey

INcog - actually, the head of JFLL/FLL exhibition at the local university asked me about teaming up w/ Girl Scouts to teach them robotics.

There are no lower age limits for FLL. Generally, the guideline is 9-14yrs old. The 14yrs old is definite limit but no lower age limit really, it's up to the coaches.

Oh and if some are interested in the LEGO kits, LEGO Education has a homeschool catalogue as well. http://www.legoeducation.com/store/SearchResult.aspx?pl=6&c=0&t=0&l=0 The website his horrible however and I HIGHLY recommend you calling them to have them mail you a catalogue.

Thanks for the info on age, that helps. Are you considering helping out your local GS's. That would be very generous to volunteer your time that way.
You aren't anywhere in the midwest are you???

A saw an NXT homeschool package at the Lego Education store and am considering it, however, it's pretty expensive.
I guessed the competitions are heavily populated by boys. I think both girls would do great on a boy's team. However, I also think they would contribute more in a girl's team. Especially DD8, she seems to clam up more around boys.
The girls met a young lady who was doing floor science demos at the Science Museum. She was studying physics at one of the city colleges and was involved locally in competion. She was talking to DD's about it and they were really interested in looking into it in the spring.
But perhaps I don't know what I'm getting into. Maybe we should start with the NXT on our own and look at FLL later on down the road.

Thanks much.
Neato

Incogneato - Is this the homeschool pack you're referring to? http://www.legoeducation.com/store/detail.aspx?pl=6&ID=1303&c=0&t=0&l=0

Well, here's my experience w/ NXT in the hope that it will help you decide what is right for your family. I bought it for DS hoping it was something he would do w/ his dad over the winter. Never really panned out as DH works a lot. DS, then 7, was amazing at the programming and debugging and was even correcting me, very quickly. He has excellent visual spatial skills. I'd be trying to help him build a robot, and he'd correct me. So I quickly learned to just let him do it. Ha Ha Ha. So long story short, I never got to play w/ the kit. So I convinced DH that DS, then 4, needed his own robot. We got another one for Christmas last year. Well, very quickly DS4 took over that kit. He could sit and do the tutorial on his own. I could show him simple programs and he could tell me pretty accurately how the robot should react. The trouble is that they will build a robot, then not want to take it apart to build another one.

B/c of the expense etc, I highly regulate robot kit use. When the robot is taken apart, we sort all the pieces back into the tackle box and take a quick count of pieces. I know, I'm anal that way.

From my reading online, many people buy the NXT for kids that are too young and it does mainly become a spectator sport for the kid. I think only you know your kid. Maybe they won't take to it, put it away for a year and try again.

Now if it's physics you're after ... I'd say get LEGO education sets - Motorized Simple machines and/or Motorized Mechanisms or the Elementary Engineering I or II. Those are hybrid bricks and Technic pieces which is nice for younger kids used to bricks only. They can build all sorts of cool stuff and they come with info to help you guide them in the scientific principles involved.

Now the other aspect is some fun science w/ the NXT. I spoke about my 7yr old's science fair project in another thread. Here's a quick recap. A question he had been pondering was does hot water cool down to room temp at the same rate as cold water warms up to room temp. So he decided to do that for his science fair project. I bought the LEGO Temperature sensor for the NXT. Using the NXT brick only, he wrote a program to log temp of two glasses of water, append those to a file, upload the file to the computer and analyze the data in Excel. Dh did the graphing in excel as we were very short on time. DS did all the data analysis though ie drawing conclusions. DH did shift the graph which allowed DS to see a different and correct interpretation of the data. My FIL who has a Ph.D. in chem engineering was shocked at how great the data was and showed the asymptote very nicely. DS showed his project to the engineers at the Power Plant and they were impressed this could all be done w/ a "toy." At the NXTSTep blog, Brian, does a lot w/ datalogging w/ the NXT. You can read there about his son's science fair project. they monitored the noise level in the hallway at his son's school while simultaneously counting the # of students passing by. There are companies which make 3rd party sensors for the NXT. One company is Vernier. they have oxygen sensors and carbon dioxide sensors, pH sensors etc. I saw an article on an all girl team which built an NXT robot which moved among the vege garden at their school analyzing soil temp, pH, and moisture levels and would alert someone when parameters needed attending to. I think the goal was to have it turn on the sprinkler to water etc that way they didn't over or under water the crops. Another company makes accelerometer for measuring g-forces, infrared sensors etc.

My point to all this, is that there is a lot that can be done w/ the NXT if your kids are interested. Now is it something you can just hand them and say go to it? Depends on the age and the kid. My kid is the type that he likes interaction on most things and robotics is something I enjoy so I don't mind helping.

But the NXT will sit on the shelf for months and not be picked up b/c a) he doesn't want to take that robot apart or b) he just got several 500-1000+ pc Mars LEGO kits he's been busy playing and building c) I haven't initiated an NXT activity d) no time b/c of school.

For ex: I bought the compass sensor and we had fun for a couple of weeks, setting up items to locate using the compass readings. Next we need to use the compass sensor to give the robot the ability to navigate using it. Once I get them going, they'll go with it.

Now that it's summer we'll have more time. Our summer project is the Mars Base Command challenge I linked to above. Since we have two kits, we'll likely also do some data logging perhaps, how high does the temp rise every time the freezer is opened which might help the kids to remember to not stand there w/ the fridge/freezer door open.

Also, in fostering independence, now that the NXT has been out for awhile, there are many books out there w/ complete building instructions.

OH OH OH I almost forgot.

Here is a website that is NOT to be missed. http://www.nxtprograms.com/ This website is built for kids. You can download all the programs. Additionally, he encourages kids to then modify the programs and to change the robot such that it can do X.

Thank you all for all the input.
Dazey, thank you for taking the time to type all that out. It sounds like it could be a good thing for the girls on their own. I think we would start there rather than look for a team.
I like what your son did for science fair, that's the kind of thing I was trying to find out...is it flexible enough for the child to go rogue with, so to speak.
I was told by a friend that the programming is drag and click, so it's not really a child primer to computer programming and there really isn't much out there that is.

Thanks again

Well, I'm not a programmer (I took Pascal in college a long time ago) so take what I say in that light but I have to respectfully disagree w/ your friend. NXT-G is graphical programming interface. There are blocks that represent if-then, or, and, you have sequences which run in parallel, you have global variables, counters, etc. the child still must understand the logic in order to use the blocks. The platform is based on LabView which is used around the world, from what I understand, by real engineers everyday. It's developed and used by the Carnegie Melon Institute. the NXT brick supports several text based languages (derivatives of C, C+, NXC, etc) such that the child can move forward from the graphical interface to a text-based language. however, many of the adults at NXTStep blog still use NXT-G with amazing results. I think those that get into the adult level, nitty gritty stuff (programming the NXT to solve a Rubics cube or to play chess) must go into a text-based language.

I believe Carnegie Mellon will give students a very-reduced price copy of LabView once they've outgrown NXT-G. that software allows you to write your own blocks for NXT brick. In NXT-G you can group blocks together and create what are called My Blocks such that you don't have to keep writing that same bit of code.

there is a program out there I think that allows you to w/ one click, change your graphical program to text allowing one to see the direct connection. NXT-G doesn't allow that at this time.

I think IT IS a child primer to computer programming. I've seen several posts by kids who are ready to move beyond NXT-G and are asking which text-based language to move to.

Personally, I wouldn't jump into a team first either but that's just me. It's more of a family thing at this point.

[quote]Well, I'm not a programmer [/quote.....but you play one on T.V.! Hee hee.

But, seriously Dazey, you may not be a programmer, but you are very knowlegable about this product and what it can and cannot do. I appreciate this, because I was ready to write it off as not what we are looking for after talking to my friend. And we are not engineers, my husband is the math person, corporate finance.
However, DD8 has some very good math aptitude and has always seemed to like the engineer-type toys/activities that are available. She really likes the Omnifix cubes from Didax. She's using the 3D problem solving book. She really liked drawing 3D stuctures on the grid and isometric paper. Since I don't have an engineering mindset, I'm always looking to people that do when trying to support her interests.
This is what I was thinking of purchasing:

http://www.legoeducation.com/store/...by=9&ID=1467&c=1&t=0&l=0

It looks almost the same as your link, but more expensive. I have to take a closer look to see if it's the same.

Incogneato - i'm looking into that software further. It's complicated lol. There are two versions of NXT-G. ONe for the retail market and one for the schools. The one for the retail market has 4 robots you build and program. the one for the school market actually has a tutorial which takes you step by step through all the blocks and simple programming. You can buy the School NXT-G for $20 which I did.

OK, now there is a software package for schools which is $255. I just noticed yesterday that a very similar looking package is now being sold for the homeschool market and it's $40 or something. I'm in the process of trying to find out how this pkg differs from that sold ot school. It seems to be only a single user license w/ no other differences. I want to know how that software differs from the tutorial in NXT-G which ships w/ the school kits. If you give me a day, I'll be happy to research this and report back. I don't want you invest money on something you don't need.

You are too kind, will be eternally grateful!!!!!!!!!!!

The LEGO ed NXT is more expensive than the retail version b/c it comes bundled w/ the chargeable battery. If you go this route, be forwarned that many of the books which give building instructions (BIs) for robots, don't include the rechargeable battery which adds extra thickness to the NXT Brick so you might have to modify a few designs or else just switch to regular batteries for that particular model.

I see. So the package selling for homeschool use does have a battery? The link is from the Lego education site. I didn't see that in the description. This is a little confusing, where can I get more detailed descriptions. If we are going to spend the money, what's a few more bucks for the battery, I guess. Sorry for being pesty, I'm like a dog with a bone, I know..

Yes it does, on the 2nd line it says "rechargeable lithium battery and charger" http://www.legoeducation.com/store/detail.aspx?pl=6&ID=1303&c=0&t=0&l=0

It also comes w/ an extra touch sensor as well as converter cables for using legacy sensors (those from RCX system).

I'm almost certain http://www.legoeducation.com/store/...=1467&c=1&t=0&l=0&bhcp=1 is the same as the above, just the software (which by itself costs $49. That software is NOT the same as the software for the NXT brick. THat software is called NXT-G. the plane old NXT LEGO ed kit Z979797 for $260 does NOT come w/ software since they are assuming a site license. You can buy the single user software license of NXT-G for $69.

Confused yet?

that's hwy I say call your local LEGO Ed rep and have him/her send you a catalogue...much easier.

Ahhhhh, thanks!
I think you have me in the right direction. I will get the catalogue.
Me, confused? Slightly, but I do some of my best work when I'm confused.

Thanks again,
Neato

To everyone here, I can not stress enough to call your local LEGO Education rep and get a catalogue.

There is so much more in it. If you like Kelly's Mayan Adventure, he wrote 3 more mysteries for the classroom but done equally well at home called Mystery Warehouse part 1, part 2 and part 3.

There is a new set coming out "Gearing Up for Programming and Engineering" "Gearing up for the International Space Station" "gearing up for the Mars Madness" and "Gearing up for the Return to the Moon." There is a NXT competition (FLL) book, a Compass experiment book. there is "Physics by Design" which uses Robolab (not NXT-G) and RCS and NXT to look at physics concepts. Eric Wang has a new one which NXT only "Engineering w/ LEGO Bricks and Robolab" the unofficial guide to Robolab. Robolab was thought to be on it's way out w/ the RCX but then LEGO ED upgraded it. It's a graphical interface similar ot NXT-G, some think it's more robust and easier to use.

On the science end of things, there is the Motorized simple machines kit w/ activity pack to guide you; the Elementary Engineering 1 and 11 workbook and teachers guide to go along w/ the MOtorized simple machines. There is the "Big Picture: Pulley's/wheels and axles teacher pack" for use w/ Motorized simple machines. there is also one for gears/levers.

Another book i'll likely get now is "Brick Layers II" this book is written to be used w/ LEGO Motorized simple machines. explore areas of mechanical engineering through simple and and structural engineering as they look at the special properties of certain shapes that make them useful in construction (level: intermediate to middle school).



OH I totally forgot about this. If you want to get your feet wet w/ these LEGO simple machines kit, try the LEGO KLutz kit for $19.99. I got mine at Barnes and Noble. it's a 60pc set and you make some cool gizmos.

Is it the Lego Crazy Action Contraptions?

I've really been interested in this thread because I think my DS7 would absolutely LOVE the NXT but I'm afraid to try it because of the expense. Something like the simple machines kit might be a great place to start and I wanted to make sure I found the right one. Thanks!

Yeah, I think my biggest problem will be spending too much money.

Yes that's it!

I hate you guys b/c you made me re-open my LEGO Education catalogue....now I'm about to spend more money after I just bought the Zome stuff you all talked me into getting.

Thank you!!!

If I know 100% that my kids would LOVE the NXT, I would get it. But I've been burned before by something I thought they would LOVE and then they didn't. This is just too expensive for me to be wrong.

If you have any other cheaper suggestions for those just starting out, I'd love to hear those too!!

Ok some clarification.

The NXT Homeschool set+ Carnegie Mellon curriculum http://www.legoeducation.com/store/detail.aspx?pl=6&ID=1467&c=0&t=0&l=0 is only for PC. With that curriculum, you are buying a code to log into their website to do the class. This does not work on a Mac. If you want the stand alone software which runs only on your computer and requires no log on to Carnegie Mellon website, that will cost you $225.

that is what I was told by tech support at LEGO Ed.

here's more info on that software. http://www.education.rec.ri.cmu.edu/content/curriculum/middle_school/index.htm

My HG+ sister's FAVORITE toy growing up was LEGOs. She had the entire space collection and still has them and won't even let her boys touch them!!! LOL!!! I agree, all girls need to at least be exposed to LEGOs.

They were one of my favorite toys growing up. So versatile!

I know, I didn't have LEGOS either growing up and I think "So that's why boys know so much about physics!" Maybe that's why I keep buying my boys more LEGOs. I should buy LEGO stock instead!

Resistance is futile....

Our homeschool co-op is working on putting together one or more teams, and I thought I might get a quick answer to a JFLL question here:

In the *Junior* FLL, are there robotics involved? There's not, right? Just a model made with Lego bricks?

No robots in JFLL....only LEGO bricks. Last year a motor was involved and you had to have at least one moving thing on your LEGO creation. Ours was a blender which moved. And something at the powerplant which moved. The motors are the new Power FUnctions motors in some of the newest TEchnic LEGO kits.

Hey I just got my catalog from Lego Education yesterday. The girls are going crazy! I may begin with simple machines and Engineering I before I invest in NXT. I'd really like to know more about that software from Carnegie Mellon that is supposed to be a course they can work through.
I did see a book: Maximum Lego NXT: Building robots with Java Brains.
One bullet describes: Learn JAVA, using our complete beginner's guide.
This looks promising for someone looking for additional challenge and it's good to see you can "grow" with the product because it's a considerable sum for a "toy"

You can program in several C-like languages as well as Java. But there are many adults who do some amazing things w/ NXT-G...sure the programming might be more challenging but it's certainly doable.

That LEGO ED catalogue certainly is enticing isn't it?

Yes, that calalog got everyone's engine revving around here, especially DH!

I'm glad to know there are so many possibilities with the system. That makes me feel better about the outlay of $. I'm glad I looked into it. I wonder why my friend was so discouraging of it. The way she described it, it sounded so lame and limiting. From what I see here, the girls can use it for a few years to come here doing different things. And if they aren't into it, it sure looks like DH will be! Maybe this is something DH and I can work on as a couple project if the girls ditch it. Getting carried away now...................

LOL Kids do this into college. Right now they are building LEGO MINDSTORMS robots to go up in the next Atmospheric balloon launch in AZ in the Fall. All sorts of things there - how to survive the pressure, how to survive the fall, what will the NXT be measuring etc. A few of the adults at the NXTSTEP blog don't have kids!

We do tend to go in phases like any toy....we pick it up hot and heavy, then move on to something else, then pick it up again. That's why I wanted to do the LEGO Mars Base Command mission - to give us something targeted to do.

Who was it that was ordering an NXT? Did you get it? How is it going?

I'm too tired to read the entire thread again but I recall someone was also going to do Jim Kelly's Mars Mission Base Command challenge? How's it going? We have one more mission to build and we'll start on the robot.

For those interested, hop on over to http://www.thenxtstep.blogspot.com/ and read Brian Davis' blog on his NXT payload as well as the other NXT payloads which will be launched in the HALE mission.

Me!! It's here, DS and I played with it one whole day, installed the software, and then things got really busy and it's been sitting there staring at me... Wednesday we're having a friend over who will almost certainly go straight for that to play with (and I trust him not to break it...), so it will get played with I promise! And actually the ridiculously-busy phase should be starting to ease off in about six hours (swim team, cat sitting, and a series of appointments), so there's hope for the rest of the summer too... LOL

If anyone is on the fence about buying - there is a coupon code for $20% off and free shipping so that's $200 for a retail NXT kit. The price is not to beat. If you want details, go to http://thenxtstep.blogspot.com/

Dazey!!!!!!

i love you i hate you i love you i hate you i love you i hate you.


Oy,
My husband is going to kill me.........here I go!

Good luck!

there are two codes. From the nxtstep blog comments "I was attempting a test purchase, added the coupon code as described in the posting, then also added this coupon code "SSFS67" and when it was applied the shipping costs were removed saving another $7 USD."

Hey Dazey,

I just ordered it. I called and the person removed the shipping fee for me, so 199.96, no shipping, no tax.


I do have a question.
I have the education catalogs, but what I ordered was the retail version, not the education version.

So as I understand it, I'm ordering the exact same thing without the rechargable battery, storage bin and NXT software. Does that sound right?

No. the retail version comes with the software. The education version does not come w/ the software b/c it assumes schools would be buying a site license.

I can't recall about the storage bin...i got a tackle box which fits all the components nicely. In the top part, fits the balls, wheels, NXT brick, cables. Beneath that, are 4 of those tackle boxes where you put in the moveable dividers. All the rest of the parts are sorted by type in those bins.

Thanks Dazey! I'm pretty excited, that's a great price. The only problem is that Scholastic doesn't actually have them in stock yet!
Oops!
They said the are expecting 60 and that it shouldn't be a problem.

Ahem......

Oh well, the coupon expires tomorrow, so even if I have to wait a month, I will still get that price and I won't be billed til it ships.

Thank you so much for posting that, I appreciate it.

Now, there are so many other components I want to buy as well!

I think I will buy one thing per month and dollar cost average the whole project!

wowza!

Ok, just you so you hate me even more, the LEGO Education Resource kit can't be beat as an add on to the NXT retail kit. The bicycle tires which come with it are too cool. You're half way to Christmas. Then there'll probably be a sale on the rechargeable battery packs for the NXT.

http://www.legoeducation.com/store/detail.aspx?ID=1277

When I bought this kit it was $59 but w/ the sinking dollar, all the LEGO kits are rising in price. This kit will also fit into the tackle box I bought.

OH I see the storage bin that comes w/ the education set. No, the retail kit comes in a rinky dinky box which most tear apart trying to get the parts out of it.

If you can, be very careful and you can remove the box which holds the sensors. That box is glued to the bigger box. If you remove that little box intact, it's perfect for sitting in the top of a tackle box and prevents the sensors from knocking around when not in use.

Also, if you receive some package which has foam rectangles for filler, I cut a square out of that which snuggly fits the NXT brick and such so they don't bang around the top of the tackle box. It was 1inch thick foam that was 2ftx1ft which came in a package.

This guys sells storage cases that me makes and puts those little pictures of the parts inside. http://www.roboticslearning.com/store/storage-nxt-fll It's pricey though. I liked that storage bin but couldn't find it in any stores and the shipping was astronomical. I just went to a hunting,fishing store and bought one.

Dazey - your pushing me to the edge! We have an NXT (my husband is not the best at sharing it either. ). The extra stuff would be awesome! This would be great for DS to give to DH for x-mas right? (justifying ... justifying ...)

I have the compass sensor as well which is fun to play with. Since we're a big soccer family, I'd like to get the infrared sensor and IR ball since we have two NXTs, we can have family Robocup Soccer matches!

I have the old LEGO Ed thermometer for the NXT but heard that LEGO ed has made a new one which hooks directly to NXT and will be more metal to withstand chemicals and higher/lowertemps - gosh darn it.

Dazey,

I don't think you realize this, but you have just become my NXT advisor!


Aha, DH's birthday is coming up. The girls can give it to HIM for his birthday to work with them on!

Kim, you brilliant thing!

Perfect plan!!!!!!!!!!!

Someone posted at the NXTSTep blog that LEGO shop at home is now bundling the rechargeable battery pack and charger for $55! I think I got mine on sale and it was $70!

I hope that's a new price, not a sale price! I'm not buying anything else for awhile, although I do know we should purchase it.

I told DD8 I ordered it for Dad's birthday from her and her sister and she was super excited. She also loves being in on the scam , I mean secret.

LEGO Engineering has a new science curriculum. here's the link http://www.legoengineering.com/inde...mp;view=article&id=92&Itemid=144

NXT-G 2.0 has been released and available for purchase through LEGO Education. It offers data logging capabilities as was found in the software for RCX system. So all the stuff we've done by hand in Excel can be done in NXT-G.

NXT-G 2.0 LEGO Education

Here is a tutorial for the new data logging function of NXT-G.
NXT-G 2.0 Tutorial

Why yes, I just saw that. Why can't those darn lego people let me get caught up with the current stuff before they release cool NEW stuff!

Check out the NXT STep Blog for the entry by a highschool teacher using NXT-G 2.0 and datalogging with middle schoolers. NXT Step BLog

Also, the NXT retail version has been repackaged. Gone is the sound sensor but there is a color sensor as well as a zamor shooter.

I'm new to this forum, just wanted to say this is an excellent discussion thread about FIRST LEGO League (FLL) and the Mindstorms NXT robot kit. As an FLL coach I would say it can be a very rewarding program for gifted and highly gifted kids.

There is also a very comprehensive forum at the official FLL website:
http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/fll/default.aspx?id=970

For any of you in Los Angeles (West LA area), I have posted a notice in the "Regions" section about our 2010 Lego robotics meetings getting started soon.

Happy to answer any questions by PM.

Thanks for your note. FLL is an activity that can be pursued at a light or recreational level, or all the way up to an intense or highly competitive level. Kids can have fun and learn a lot anywhere along this spectrum, if it's the level they wanted. The range could be as little as 2-3 hours per week, or up to 10-15 hours per week.

There is a well-known FLL group in New Jersey that maintains an excellent website. The lower part of this web page has a good summary of the range of possible involvements:
http://www.landroids.org/?page_id=124

They also have a document there called "Parents Frequently Asked Questions" which is the best unofficial FLL summary I've seen for parents. Very informative, and maybe a little eye-opening too.