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    #183780 - 03/04/14 07:24 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    luvedu Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 02/26/14
    Posts: 31

    indigo, again your analysis is right on. Some points that I didn't automatically think about, you rightly pointed them to me! Luv your Broccoli analogy :-) !

    I have a mild problem with enriching(takes 4-8 hours) the child at home after school, as it takes away the time of having casual middle of the week unhurried dinners - the ones that open and give way to play/ talk/ discussions. Doing after school enrichment activities the child is already bogged down with million things on his mind!Agreed try to strive a balance- but with a gifted child there is no balance- HE wishes to go all the way deeper and deeper. But without the essential out of school enrichment, my son will "fall off the curious / wants to learn more brain" that is brimming with firing neurons. I feel learning is like LOVE - why withhold it?
    It is a "damned if I do damned if I don't"-situation ! I just can't bring myself to let him " go with the flow and sail away where ever the wind takes him!"

    We donate a sizable amount to the school too. I am unable to understand the ego behind not allowing a child to learn at his fast pace. Agreed the heavy donors and Board members do not have children who fit this mold. I suspect this makes the school look bad , as not all the children are racing to learn and excel!

    ** 1111. Only our son's Art Teacher " gets it " :-) . My son is also not challenged with the Art department as they are not giving him challenging meaningful art projects ! I engage him in fine art at home - but 24 hours a day are NEVER enough , alas ! I am seriously considering taking a year off after highschool and sending him to France for a year to continue his love and talent for Art ( will this happen- I don't know ! ), he is willing. He can speak french !

    I am grateful for you all giving me feedback and making my decision to switch school , seem appropriate !

    Will continue to keep you guys posted.

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    #183804 - 03/04/14 10:26 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: luvedu]
    ashley Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/26/12
    Posts: 638
    Originally Posted By: luvedu


    I am not expert in education - but I see a child who wants to learn more, is SUPER well behaved, has shown consistently he excels in math - WHY DENY him ?



    luvedu, your son's story closely parallels my son's. My son is younger at 6, but your post bought a sense of deja vu to me. I too have problems with "afterschooling" for hours upon hours in my son's areas of strengths. I find it counter intuitive and counter productive. But, I live in an area where it is the norm rather than the exception.

    Some strategies that might help:
    1. Use online programs (EPGY online is an example) and the Great Courses DVDs as enrichment tools. Your son can learn at his convenience.
    2. Try to get your son a mentor or a tutor in advanced math - I have a strong math background and teach my son now, but, I would like him to have a mentor to guide him later on.
    3. Enter your son in a Math olympiad or Math Kangaroo like competition - if your son wins a significant prize, the school has to acknowledge that he is gifted in math, right???
    4. Please consider enrolling your son into your local Math Circle. The advantage is that your son can interact with like minded peers, advance significantly in math and will have a mentor to guide him.
    In addition to these, I have a curriculum that is good that I use to teach my son at home.
    I am sorry that your son's gifted school thinks that they are "experts" in teaching your son. If they say that you should look for another school, then, maybe you should ... because in addition to fee, you are paying them a donation too!
    Good luck with the DYS application. Maybe they will help you find a solution.

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    #183813 - 03/04/14 11:09 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    luvedu Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 02/26/14
    Posts: 31
    ashley. Great to hear from you.
    Isn't it true " I too have problems with "afterschooling" for hours upon hours in my son's areas of strengths. I find it counter intuitive and counter productive ! "

    Loved your suggestions.

    1. He and my younger son (8) are both in CTY English program. They Luv it. They are in "Where the wild things are ( gr 3) and the older one is in " The process of writing"( gr 5). Can't say enough good things about CTY

    2. Finding a mentor in Gifted Math is very very hard. I teach my kids math , just like you do . But I would like some one who can teach him , while drawing on his strengths ! I don't want a repeat of the school teaching ...
    3. Ashley he did enter a regional Math competition, got a perfect score , came first - School is not impressed enough to acknowledge he may be gifted.
    4. Enrolling in local math circle- I will look into it, but I am suspecting may end up with time constraints.
    5. Can you PM me about the curriculum that you are following at home ?
    6. I am considering Art Of problem Solving for Spring 2014. Summers at CTD ( northwestern university are great - but this year we will be travelling and can not attend CTD :-( . ) I will consider EPGY ( standford...He is ready to enrol in Algebra -1 honors but can't be sure if that is the correct progression. I find EPGY website very very confusing). How do I find out what is the correct course for my son. I can definitely not follow their age or grade guideline , as my son is beyond it.

    7. At 6yrs I was so sure my was gifted but the school dampnen my spirits and at 10 - I just couldn't hold him back anymore..He started complaining if there is anything more to learn in math ever !

    8. I have the Great courses DVD and I am sure to wipe the dust off them and put it on for my kids :-)

    Please stay in touch and good luck.

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    #183814 - 03/04/14 11:10 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: luvedu]
    luvedu Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 02/26/14
    Posts: 31
    ashley do you have any experience with EXPLORE test ?

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    #183823 - 03/04/14 11:34 AM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: luvedu]
    ashley Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/26/12
    Posts: 638
    Originally Posted By: luvedu
    ashley. Great to hear from you.
    Isn't it true " I too have problems with "afterschooling" for hours upon hours in my son's areas of strengths. I find it counter intuitive and counter productive ! "

    Loved your suggestions.

    1. He and my younger son (8) are both in CTY English program. They Luv it. They are in "Where the wild things are ( gr 3) and the older one is in " The process of writing"( gr 5). Can't say enough good things about CTY

    2. Finding a mentor in Gifted Math is very very hard. I teach my kids math , just like you do . But I would like some one who can teach him , while drawing on his strengths ! I don't want a repeat of the school teaching ...
    3. Ashley he did enter a regional Math competition, got a perfect score , came first - School is not impressed enough to acknowledge he may be gifted.
    4. Enrolling in local math circle- I will look into it, but I am suspecting may end up with time constraints.
    5. Can you PM me about the curriculum that you are following at home ?
    6. I am considering Art Of problem Solving for Spring 2014. Summers at CTD ( northwestern university are great - but this year we will be travelling and can not attend CTD :-( . ) I will consider EPGY ( standford...He is ready to enrol in Algebra -1 honors but can't be sure if that is the correct progression. I find EPGY website very very confusing). How do I find out what is the correct course for my son. I can definitely not follow their age or grade guideline , as my son is beyond it.

    7. At 6yrs I was so sure my was gifted but the school dampnen my spirits and at 10 - I just couldn't hold him back anymore..He started complaining if there is anything more to learn in math ever !

    8. I have the Great courses DVD and I am sure to wipe the dust off them and put it on for my kids :-)

    Please stay in touch and good luck.


    If winning a regional math competition is not proof enough for your son's school then they really may be trying to hide the fact that they do not have the expertise to teach him. I am using AOPS (Beast Academy right now and hope to use AOPS prealgebra later on). The best places to find mentors are through your local universities and colleges. Math Circles are sponsored by the math departments of acclaimed universities and colleges. They encourage kids to learn math and problem solving at a high level. The professors involved in these circles can and most often do act as mentors for the kids who are interested in learning advanced math.
    I am not familiar with EXPLORE - it is a little too early for us to take the EXPLORE. But, there are several in this forum who have experience with it - you can start a separate thread about it. I also suggest that you check out the WellTrainedMind forums (The Accelerated Learners sub-forum in particular) for a lot of valuable resources.

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    #183826 - 03/04/14 12:06 PM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    ultramarina Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/24/10
    Posts: 3423
    Quote:
    Seems it doesn't matter what kind of school, it is just a matter of finding this one person that "gets it".


    I think this is a very good point, and one that may not be made enough on this board (although one cannot create such a person out of thin air). My DD10 had no such advocate at her first school, and despite copious evidence that she was spinning her wheels, nothing was done for her. DD5 happened to get a K teacher with extensive gifted training, and doors have opened for him and everyone has been accommodating.

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    #183844 - 03/04/14 02:22 PM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    Madoosa Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/20/11
    Posts: 710
    Loc: South Africa
    This is definitely not limited to the USA - here in South Africa there is a definite copy of the trend there.

    I hated maths in high school and have therefore determined to NOT squash my boys' natural affinity for numeracy. I go out of my way to enthuse them and give them the opportunities to keep them engaged in maths. Right now we use Dreambox and Soroban (Japanese abacus) classes. I have recently discovered Life of Fred and am totally in love with them (I am a literary type person so they appeal well!)

    I remember when Aiden was 3 and then 4 and in pre school (gifted school - only one in the country!) and he asked about negative numbers (aged 3) and was told he was too young to worry about that now, and then when asking to learn multiplication facts (age 4) was told that counting in 1's is the 1 times table. yes i kid you not.

    Suffice it to say, we homeschool now and my boys are flourishing!

    Maths (all learning really) should be freely available to any child (person) who wants it when they want it in a way that makes sense to them to understand what they are trying to figure out.
    _________________________
    Mom to 3 gorgeous boys: Aiden (8), Nathan (7) and Dylan (4)

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    #184662 - 03/12/14 02:54 PM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: ashley]
    luvedu Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 02/26/14
    Posts: 31
    How do I find the Accelerated Sub Forum ?

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    #184665 - 03/12/14 03:16 PM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    Tallulah Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/25/10
    Posts: 480
    The book developing math talent" by Assouline has some good suggestions on advocacy and enrichment.

    ITA that a good teacher has no problems both compacting/accelerating and enriching all in one class. There are a lot of really cool things which aren't in the standard curriculum.


    Edited by Tallulah (03/12/14 03:17 PM)

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    #184672 - 03/12/14 04:42 PM Re: Gifted children could learn math much earlier [Re: JonahSinick]
    madeinuk Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/13
    Posts: 1443
    Loc: NJ
    Lovedu,

    I have been through exactly the same resentment tinged ennui that you are experiencing. To some extent it doesn't go away but you become better able to cope with it. What helped us to get the school to come round was a combination of the Iowa Scale and walking them through material on the dangers of not accelerating.

    In our case DD's teachers accepted that she was quick to learn and ahead of her age peers but they had reservations due to 2 main areas of concern:-

    What I will call the 'we have to look at the whole child fallacy' this allows administrators to effectively ignore academics and protest that removing a child from their age peers will do irreparable harm. Showing the school the literature showing that evidence overwhelmingly supports the opposite conclusion helped us.

    The other objection is based on an apparent fear of an absolute torrent of 'our special snowflake too!' Requests for other parents. Here we introduced the Iowa Scale to the school and persuaded them that in it the have an objective bar that most 'me too' requests will fail to clear while making the point that anyone clearing the bar should be accelerated .

    Our DD was accelerated a full year and she is still not learning enough really but her over excitabilities have calmed right down.

    My conclusion is that it is unlikely that any school will ever go at the pace that my DD can learn at but the skip has relieved some of the pressure that my DD was feeling for the time being at least.

    We are trying AoPS now which she seems to like. It is an after school program but it has rekindled her enjoyment in Maths so it is like play to her - weird as it sounds. Not sure what the future holds...
    _________________________
    Become what you are

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