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    We haven't done this for a while and technology is changing so fast, that I thought I'd post to make sure we are all up on what's working out there. Especially those of you who have recently gotten ipads up and running! If we can keep a running review of products we use, I know I'd find it valuable.

    For our middle schooler dysgraphic, we use a windows laptop. Word for word processing, one note for compiling notes from various sources for studying, and for taking notes in class. Efofex for math. Paperport for scanning and typing on worksheets.

    WORD is word, no need for a review.

    ONENOTE: is OK but not ideal. It has the option to turn on the microphone while taking notes so you can listen back to what was said at the time you are typing notes. On a touch screen, which we don't have, you are supposed to be able to write into one note too. It's great for compiling notes and pictures into form that a kid can use for studying. What DS finds difficult is the filing system. It's nice that it saves everything without saving, but it's hard to do more than place things in folders for organization. A second issue is printing. It's easy to accidentally print out the whole one note folder rather than just the one document, and formatting is unpredictable when printed.

    EFOFEX. DS primarily uses the Efofex equation. It is now in Beta for Mac. The other three are already on Mac. With the upgrades, DS has encountered annoying glitches. They are usually fixed eventually, but it has made for frustration. One issue that is not resolved is that if you don't use it imbedded in Word-- which DS prefers--- it will only print out a limited number of lines. The rest of the document just doesn't exist. So, for example, he does his math test, saves it in PDF on a flash drive, then gives it to his teacher to grade. Teacher sees only 2/3rd of the test. DS has to spend a bit of time guessing how much to put in different documents, usually copying and pasting through one note. Which is a problem with limited time on test days. When imbedded in Word, DS finds formatting problems that he has to go back and undo, and there's a lot of clicking to start writing in the box it gives you. DS is slow to change, so he still prefers efofex freestanding.

    He used efofex for prealgebra and algebra, but much less so in geometry, finding that he would need to redraw his teacher's pictures. He uses PAPERPORT instead. You have to scan the document in, then open it, then click where you want to type and start typing. You can also save it as a PDF and type on it that way. Paperport has worked pretty well for DS for the past 5 years or so. We got it as part of the printer/scanner.

    DS has an ipad in school and I'm curious what people use with the ipad.

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    mon - thanks so much for posting this - it's a great idea!

    I don't have time to list ds' apps at the moment - busy day, and his iPad is at school with him. I'll come back later and fill in. I'm very interested in seeing what other people are using!

    polarbear



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    Hi this is great! Also wondering if people can add in what they used when their kiddos started school.. Like K and 1st. Even if you are not using them anymore since your kids are older. Thanks!

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    BUMP??? Any ideas? Ipad apps? Computer programs?

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    I wish I knew. We just bought a cheap kids' tablet for DS but it would be android apps. I haven't really looked into it yet. Something to teach him how to properly form letters would be great, since he starts most of them from the bottom or the wrong side.

    I want to start teaching him how to type if anyone has recommendations. He is 6 1/2.

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    Originally Posted by blackcat
    Something to teach him how to properly form letters would be great, since he starts most of them from the bottom or the wrong side.

    We LOVE Letter School for the iPad-- maybe it's available in Android too.

    Originally Posted by blackcat
    I want to start teaching him how to type if anyone has recommendations. He is 6 1/2.

    We used BBC Dance Mat, but transitioned to typingweb.com, which is less distracting.

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    Thanks! I will check those out.

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    http://www.ncld.org/students-disabi...dents-ld-dysgraphia-writing-difficulties

    This is a website that lists a bunch of apps, though I don't know anything about how good they are or how much they cost. Most of us know Dragon dictate--we never used it ourselves.

    If anyone has used any, please give us your review!

    The 99 cent grammar game looks fun. I would have loved to preposition builder, sentence builder, and grammar game for my DS when he was younger.

    Last edited by master of none; 12/27/13 06:22 PM.
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    Tools4Students is a great app to facilitate the writing process for dysgraphic kids. It has lots of templates for writing, including a graphic writing organizer, a template for a "compare and contrast" paper, a document analysis template, a character study template etc. DS finds just getting started and organizing his ideas to be slow and very painful. The visual templates ease the pain some.

    iThoughts is a mind mapping program for outlining as well that is helpful for spatial thinkers.

    The Type on PDF app is also great for dysgraphic kids. You can turn anything into a pdf by taking a picture of it with the iPad in a number of apps (DS uses My Scans) and then pull it up in Type on PDF and types right on it-great for worksheets and the like.

    Quizlet is a godsend to replace the torture of flashcards for dysgraphics. It is an app and also a website. Your DC will have to create a log in and type the cards. The site or app can then test you on the fronts and backs (standard) but also generate multiple choice, matching and fill in the blank tests as well. It also has a large number of public sets of flashcards so your child can search his or her book and chapter and likely find a set of cards already created. Classmates can also collaborate with each other and share sets. DS loves to race the quiz clock and actually studies on Quizlet with a minimum of struggle.

    We are an Apple family so I am happy to hear that Efofex equation is in beta for the Mac. DS needs it!

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    - Letter School: as DeeDee said, this is a great app for learning to form letters properly!

    - Cursive Touch and Write: very fun cursive app. You can choose to write with syrup, pudding, shaving cream, etc., so there are different colors and sounds as you write. You learn to write individual letters (uppercase and lowercase) and also words.

    - DragonBox: incredible algebra math game. Beautiful, stunning, a favorite. Starting level is called DragonBox5+ and the more advanced level is 12+. Little kids can learn this, and it gets complex. And it's nice that you can do math without the dreaded pencil in your hand.

    These are all apps we use on the iPad, not sure about android.

    Can't wait to hear others' suggestions!

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    Here's one for kids who can write with fingers but have difficulty with tools:

    http://www.visionobjects.com/en/myscript/math-application/myscript-mathpad/description/

    They are free apps for android and ipad that will translate finger writing for note taking and for math. The math app claims to be able to convert to LaTex which would be handy for anyone that needs that function for an AOPS class.

    Last edited by master of none; 01/20/14 06:11 AM.
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    Just got the email that lots of you are probably getting too, but just in case:
    Efofex equation is now out for Mac.

    http://efofex.com/

    It is free for those with disabilities who can provide the supporting documentation (see website for details). Otherwise, looks like it would be 55.00 for the full math pack (equation, draw, stat, and graph).


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    I'm scoping out the Panther apps: Panther Math Paper (which lets you drag and drop numbers into their proper places, lining up the digits appropriately) and Panther Writer (which has several adaptive keyboards, including swiping.)

    Any experience with those?

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    Dee Dee, had a brief look. It's expensive for an App so didn't buy it, but had a question about Panther-- looked like it GIVES you the math problems and it was unclear if you are able to put in your own math problems- like would happen if you are doing your classwork or homework assigned by teacher. If you find out you can do your own problems, I'd be very interested to know!

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    This is slightly off topic, but I'm not sure where to find out my answer...you all look like you might have some ideas for me. smile My DD (8) is recently diagnosed 2E with ADD and mild dyslexia. Frankly, I think it's more of a dysgraphia as she has all the symptoms and is "reading" without too much difficulty 2 grades above where she's at. So, my question is this: If dysgraphia doesn't really improve long term with more practice writing, at what age should we start accommodations? I asked her reading specialist (DD is seeing her for lessons in Orton-Gillingham) and she seemed to think I should wait. I'm torn--I don't want her NOT to practice her hand-writing, but it's such a battle every time and she's really going hard-core with her avoidance behaviors (tantrums, constant chattering and topic changing, absolute refusal to write more for the reading specialist, etc). I doubt she's getting much from the practicing at this point, and I keep thinking that if I provide some sort of accommodation it might reduce the overall stress of writing for her. Do you think this might provide too much of a "crutch"?

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    Originally Posted by master of none
    Dee Dee, had a brief look. It's expensive for an App so didn't buy it, but had a question about Panther-- looked like it GIVES you the math problems and it was unclear if you are able to put in your own math problems- like would happen if you are doing your classwork or homework assigned by teacher. If you find out you can do your own problems, I'd be very interested to know!

    OK, MON, I'll let you know. I think it's more flexible than just "set problems."

    I expect we're going to pony up for the math paper ($20!); less sure about the writing app ($30!).



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    Originally Posted by 1mom
    If dysgraphia doesn't really improve long term with more practice writing, at what age should we start accommodations?

    We started teaching DS7 touch typing in 1st grade and are trying to make accommodations available across the day in 2nd.

    DeeDee

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    Who diagnosed your dd? Was it school, a neuropsych, other? Did she have any indication of dysgraphia in the testing, and if so, were there any follow-up tests to determine the cause of the potential dysgraphia symptoms? Did the person who did the evaluation look at any handwriting samples from school or during testing? <= I asked these questions because I think the first thing you need to do in order to answer your question below is to determine if your dd is or isn't dysgraphic.

    Quote
    So, my question is this: If dysgraphia doesn't really improve long term with more practice writing, at what age should we start accommodations?

    Our ds was diagnosed at 8 (end of 2nd grade). His neuropsych recommended that we put accommodations in place immediately (scribing first, teach him to type, then move all his work to typing, then add in word substitution etc, then later on start voice-to-text, and assume from the start that as an adult he would never be able to rely on handwriting). We were also told to right away have him work on a program to learn how to print "to the best of his ability" and then *stop*, and he was referred for approximately 1 year of handwriting OT (which helped him quite a bit - it didn't make his dysgraphia disappear, but it gave him correct posture, correct grip, alleviated wrist pain, and helped him develop legible handwriting).

    The first thing I'd do (if I was you) is ask my dd if her wrist or hand hurts when she has to write. This is a classic symptom of dysgraphia, and I think it happens because of odd posture, grip, squeezing on the pencil while writing etc. If this is happening it might or might not mean dysgraphia, but it most likely *does* mean she needs some help with pencil grip, posture etc - so an OT fine motor eval might be useful.

    If you want to post some more details about her testing etc we might be able to tell you whether or not what is seen there is similar to what our dysgraphic children have as indications of dysgraphia on testing. You can also look at her handwriting samples - is her handwriting uneven (letter size, spacing, running into the edges of the paper etc), is her pencil pressure on paper uneven, does she have challenges with punctuation, does she mix capitals and lowercase, is she still reversing letters when she writes - those are all indications of potential dysgraphia.

    Whether or not I'd rely on the reading specialist's advice depends a *lot* on the reading specialist's background - has she worked with children with dysgraphia before and does she understand what it is? Or has she solely focused on reading?

    Re dyslexia and reading ahead of grade level - I have a dyslexic dd - reading challenges can be really diverse and complicated. It is possible to be reading ahead of grade level yet be struggling with one of the many skills required to be a good efficient reader with good comprehension. My dd had a really wide variety of tests when she was evaluated by a reading specialist, and some of them she scores really really high on, but there is one specific skill set hidden in among all the others that she is challenged with - and working with a reading specialist targeting that specific skill has really helped her improve her reading ability and self-confidence.


    I am not an expert, so take this with a grain of salt, but I believe that dysgraphia and dyslexia are somewhat related. My dh's family has a smattering of cousins (and most likely adult relatives) who have one or the other or both co-occurring with each other. The flip side of that though is... it's possible that what looks like dysgraphia in a young child *might* be dyslexia or some other reading challenge. My dyslexic dd did not like to write when she was in early elementary and her handwriting looked somewhat dysgraphic with a lot of reversals and huge challenges with spelling. She's not dysgraphic though - she doesn't have the same types of indications in neuropsych testing that would indicate dysgraphia that my ds has, and her letter reversals decreased and eventually disappeared as moved from 1st-3rd grade. She is still challenged with spelling but that's related to her reading challenge, not dysgraphia. And yes, she's a kid who would scream and shout and refuse to write when she was younger. So did my dysgraphic ds. I think just starting with that question "does it hurt your hand (wrist) when you write?" might help you flesh out whether or not it's related to a reading challenge or dysgraphia. Just a thought!

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

    ps - 1mom, you might want to post your question again as a separate thread just in case folks are looking here only if they are interested in apps.

    Last edited by polarbear; 01/22/14 12:42 PM.
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    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    OK, MON, I'll let you know. I think it's more flexible than just "set problems."

    I expect we're going to pony up for the math paper ($20!); less sure about the writing app ($30!).

    My ds has the Panther Math Paper app (and yes, it cost $20). It allows you to select numbers and math notation to write your own equations, and you can save them as pdf files, as well as (I think) copy formulas directly using the iPad double-tap copy option. I haven't looked into it further than that - my ds is in a bit of a holding pattern where he's ok using handwriting for math at the moment (previously he'd used Efofex on his laptop but he switched to handwriting when he first had to start using an iPad for word processing etc at school). I'm sitting in the background at the moment just trying to keep his options open for writing math on his iPad when/if he gets to the point where he realizes it would decrease his homework time and increase his legibility significantly smile

    We don't have Panther Writing Paper, and I'm very interested in looking into it smile

    polarbear

    ps - DeeDee, do you have anything specific you want to look at re the math paper? I can try it out on my iPad if you'd like.

    Last edited by polarbear; 01/22/14 12:54 PM.
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    TY polarbear...I put it in its own thread. I will definitely ask her about any writing pains in her hand or arm.

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    Originally Posted by polarbear
    ps - DeeDee, do you have anything specific you want to look at re the math paper? I can try it out on my iPad if you'd like.

    Thanks, Polar.

    What are the data entry options like? Does it allow drag-and-drop, or just typing, or some combination? (Panther Writing Paper has amazingly flexible keyboards; wondering if Math Paper is similar, or more constrained.)

    It is clear to me that it's useful for elementary math-- video here http://vimeo.com/58327955 -- but not as clear that it's useful for later stages. Do you have a sense of that?

    Gratefully,
    DeeDee

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    Wow - panther math paper looks like it'd be great for my DS with EDS and dysgraphia! I really gotta get him an iPad first though frown

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    http://atclassroom.blogspot.com/2010/09/math-math-and-more-math.html

    Here is a website from a blogger with a lot of apps and programs specific to math. I found quite a few dead links but by googling, was able to find the products mentioned.

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    Hi all,

    What is the most functional app for typing on a photo of a school worksheet? That is:

    --use iPad camera to photograph worksheet
    --type to fill in worksheet
    --email to teacher or print

    So far I have looked at:

    Type On PDF: this is now Smart Forms and available by subscription only (very disappointing)

    Skitch: we're having trouble saving documents (perhaps largely because the app just has icons, no verbal instructions, and I am a verbal person-- or perhaps because it's bad design). Apparently it can work with Evernote but I have not been able to do it, and we lost a piece of work.

    Notability: it's not that easy to line up the text block with the space on the worksheet. It would be so cool if you could truly make the typing come out right.

    DocAS looks promising, but I haven't got it yet. I am feeling irked at shelling out for app after app in hopes of finding the right thing.

    Solutions???

    Thanks.

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    My ds has started using a free ipad app called ModMath that was created to help students with dysgraphia and/or dyslexia show their work.

    It allows us to email the whole session directly to the teacher, or to ourselves so we can print it from email.
    It is working well for ds.

    The parents of a child with dysgraphia funded building the app but are giving it away for free to help other kids.
    Here is a link to it:
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/modmath/id821892964?mt=8


    Last edited by titubeante; 04/07/14 05:34 PM.
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    DeeDee - that's really disappointing to here that TypeonPDF is now through a subscription service - ugh!

    I don't have time to look right now - but have you tried looking at either the Dyslexic Advantage website or the NCLD website? I think they both have lists of apps for dysgraphic/dyslexics that are about as up-to-date as you'll find online.

    Let us know what you find!

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    Dos anyone have a suggestion for a cheap tablet to use these apps?

    I don't have one and I am lost as to what to do with my sons dysgraphia. Insurance will not cover OT and we had to pull him from school and are homeschooling him.

    I would like for him to learn to form letters correctly and also to learn to type.

    I wonder... is it really bad is he continues to write letters from the bottom up?? For his whole life? I haven't started doing much writing with him yet, because I don't know how to go about it and I don't want to reinforce bad habits.
    He has started some gifted classes at Northwestern and it is obviously affecting his ability to participate already.

    For the record, his school didn't recognize the problem. The also didn't recognize that he is hg. They were not teaching him anything at all. Sadly. He is in first grade

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    LRS, dysgraphia comes in many different forms, shapes, sizes etc.. so take my advice with a grain of salt - I'm just a parent, not a professional. Our neuropsych suggested we teach our ds how to form letters as much as possible through HWOT (at home). It's the same program our school used, fwiw. DS had a really tough time with it and we never did get much of anywhere with it - but he did at least understand the concept of the letters starting at the top thanks to HWOT. The thing that I think held him back with this first step was that he was still suffering from a ton of wrist pain when he tried to write. He did go through handwriting OT, which helped give him a reasonable pencil grip and good posture while writing - which was probably the first step in alleviating some of his wrist pain. The OT also worked on different types of finger-muscle strengthening exercises and that helped too. When we were hassling with our insurance over payment (which it never did cover), we were offered the option by the OT of not sending ds to weekly sessions, but instead paying for an eval and for a few sessions to put together a program that we could work on at home. This might be something worth investing a small amount of $ in so that you have a path forward but also don't spend a lot of time trying something that isn't going to be worth the effort (which HWOT was, for, us, ultimately not worth the effort at the time because ds first needed the OT).

    I also need, for clarity here, to explain that while OT greatly *diminished* ds' wrist pain while writing, it didn't eliminate it (it is still an issue years later) and it also absolutely didn't eliminate the need for AT.

    We were also told by our neuropsych to start our ds typing as soon as we'd exhausted whatever was possible in terms of teaching him how to print. I'd step that up honestly and say - start in with keyboarding right away even while you're remediating printing. I also would look into apps for teaching letter formation - our ds was learning how to print before iPads were on the market, so we didn't have the same type of tools available that are out there now.

    Re his participation in classes at Northwestern etc - our ds has the same accommodations available to him through talent search classes that he does through school classes. Has your son been diagnosed by a professional? If he has, you should be able to use the report to advocate for (and receive) accommodations such as use of a keyboard or oral response on tests or scribing etc.

    I also just want to add as a bit of encouragement - it's not unusual for 2e kids to have their intellectual gifts go unrecognized early on in elementary school, and much of the time it can feel like all of your focus is on remediating or learning how to cope with the second e - but please know, if you focus on understanding and learning how to accommodate for the 2nd e now, opportunities are going to open up in middle school and beyond and your ds will be well prepared for participating in them, thanks to the work you're doing now.

    Hang in there!

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    Thank you polarbear!

    Great suggestions. I really appreciate it.

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    Update:
    I contacted his teacher at CTD at Northwestern and they immediately said tha they will scribe for him as much as needed and other stuff. Amazing. They said, well, of course, lots of gifted kids have issues like that so it's not a problem.
    Blow my mind.

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