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    #177493 12/17/13 07:51 PM
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    KADmom Offline OP
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    I hope you don't mind if I vent here. I'm feeling so frustrated with ds12's school for a variety of reasons which I won't go into here. This is about math.

    Some background: ds's processing speed is low average. There are over 4 standard deviations between that and his VCI. He has always hated timed tests. He basically freezes up when the pressure's on.
    Because of the speed factor, he's never felt confident in math despite getting As in previous years. I've been trying to teach him that fast in math doesn't necessary mean good, and conversely, slow in math doesn't mean bad.

    He skipped 6th grade math because he's grade advanced (his fifth grade math teacher felt certain he could do it with no problems) and he's in a compacted 7th/8th math class. It's been a challenge so far because he's learning things at the speed of light, but he loves the challenge and the teacher.

    I happened to write to the teacher to thank her for helping him to love math again and I told her how minute math back in 2nd grade had turned him off and made him lose his confidence. Five days later, she gives the class four math minutes tests to be counted toward the final grade. DS couldn't finish them so of course they lowered his grade.
    On top of that, the teacher gave them all a 0 on a test because they'd been talking. (Only half the class had been talking and ds was not one of them.) So she ripped up all twenty-plus papers and gave them all fs.

    I told ds I didn't care about the low minute math grades. I told him it's more important to be accurate than fast in math. It's hard for him to see that though. He said to me tonight< "It's obvious it does matter, mom. Look at the grades I got on them."

    I'm so frustrated. I thought they'd be beyond the minute math by now.

    Am I looking at this the wrong way? Should I expect ds to be faster? I think in 2nd grade he did minute math the whole year and never improved his speed.

    Last edited by KADmom; 12/21/13 05:52 AM.
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    They ought to be. I am just feeling the bile rise thinking about this. I have a ds13, who was pretty much in the same boat with minute math, why why WHY do teachers/schools persist with these?

    I know some kids do great with these, but that doesn't mean they necessarily are going to tear up the rest of the math curriculum, and so many kids who do well with math concepts seem to get beat about the head an shoulders with this minute / timed math testing to the point of hating math, that it seems extremely clear it is bad news.

    I recommend you at least inquire with the teacher/school to see if your child can opt out of these. It worked for us.


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    My son gets extra time for these. Others have to do it in a minute he gets a minute and half. Sometimes he needs the half sometimes not.

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    She ripped up their papers and gave them all an f? Sounds like she gets an f for maturity.

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    No good suggestions except to try and talk with the teacher.

    I really hate teachers who punish the whole class, attempting to use peer pressure to punish a few. It doesn't work and it sends the wrong message in my opinion.

    As to the timed tests, I remember HATING this in 6th grade myself. I never did well on them, yet I ended up on the advanced math track. My son has never done well with this kind of timed test either. He dislikes chess because a chess club I had him try insisted the kids use timers. Thankfully son was in a dedicated gifted class and by 7th grade was taking algebra with a wonderful teacher and didn't have to put up with this.

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    Originally Posted by KADmom
    I happened to write to the teacher to thank her for helping him to love math again and I told her how minute math back in 2nd grade had turned him off and made him lose his confidence. Five days later, she gives the class four math minutes tests to be counted toward the final grade... I'm so frustrated. I thought they'd be beyond the minute math by now.
    I share your frustration.

    The timing of the teacher administering minute math mere days after your note to her, raises a question in my mind as to whether this was coincidental. Do you know any parent whose student was in this teacher's 7/8 class last year... could you casually ask them if minute math was a graded component of last year's class? Does your school have an online grade book? If it does, can all graded tasks be viewed? If they can, do the teachers pre-load the tasks for the term, or do tasks appear at random times such as the day they occur or after-the-fact? Is minute math listed as a graded task in the grade book?

    While some are tireless advocates for all kids including gifted kids to learn to the best of their abilities, there are some who are intent on closing the achievement gap (or excellence gap) by undermining gifts and talents. Additionally, there are some teachers earning advanced degrees and performing research experiments on their unsuspecting students. Not saying either of these things are occurring here, but it is something which parents may want to keep in the back of their minds.

    Originally Posted by KADmom
    Should I expect ds to be faster?
    Gaining speed in math may be impacted by the low average processing speed you mentioned. As a separate issue, gaining confidence and skill in test-taking ability may be key.

    Just curious, have you looked online for one minute math exercises? I found an online test which was friendly in that it only graded what I completed, and gave me positive feedback (as opposed to marking any blank/unfinished problems as incorrect). smile (link- http://www.webmathminute.com/)

    Wish I had better answers to share with you.

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    22B Offline
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    I've never heard the term "minute math" before, but it doesn't sound so bad, as long as it isn't overdone.

    Originally Posted by KADmom
    Some background: ds's processing speed is low average. There is over 4 standard deviations between that and his VCI.

    My DS's processing speed is low average. It is over 4 standard deviations lower than his math fluency. So low processing speed isn't necessarily a handicap when it comes to timed math tests.

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    KADmom Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by 22B
    I've never heard the term "minute math" before, but it doesn't sound so bad, as long as it isn't overdone.

    Originally Posted by KADmom
    Some background: ds's processing speed is low average. There is over 4 standard deviations between that and his VCI.

    My DS's processing speed is low average. It is over 4 standard deviations lower than his math fluency. So low processing speed isn't necessarily a handicap when it comes to timed math tests.

    I'm sure not, but it is in ds's case. I've seen it in action: pressure makes him shut down.

    Minute math may seem innocuous, and in the early years it may well be. It's supposed to prove that a student is comfortable enough with their math facts that they can be retrieved automatically. When the student is in the later grades, I would think it's no longer necessary to prove that and what it does is reinforce the misconception that one must be quick in math to be proficient. It's simply not true.

    Last edited by KADmom; 12/18/13 06:17 AM.
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    I hate the timed testing too. I kind of understand why they do it.
    On the other it should NOT be part of final a grade, or graded at all.
    It would sure take the pressure off and make it your own personal achievement.

    I too wonder about the timing.


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    http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/PISA-2012-results-US.pdf

    This might be of interest. Especially this paragraph:

    "Students in the United States have particular strengths in cognitively less-demanding mathematical skills
    and abilities, such as extracting single values from diagrams or handling well-structured formulae. They
    have particular weaknesses in items with higher cognitive demands, such as taking real-world situations,
    translating them into mathematical terms, and interpreting mathematical aspects in real-world problems."

    This really rings a bell for me. Math is too often regarded as a set of facts and procedures to remember, and to quickly recall. This is not the essence of math. Speed has little to do with math. Period. Especially in an environment where students learned their math facts and then never go to a math class without a calculator. I'd rather the teachers/schools/educators in general less obsessed about memorizing computational facts at an early age, but instead let students do their own calculations from K to 12 without using calculators. This way the facts are gradually built and used and reinforced and no one sweats over how many seconds it takes to complete a work sheet.

    My kids are not slow calculators, but are not super fast either. I hear my DD8 tell me that she is not the best math student in class because who and who finish the minute math quicker. I just tell her that one can be good without being quick (she is doing middle school math at home).

    Last edited by playandlearn; 12/18/13 09:36 AM.
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