Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy "your Mom is not in charge of your education"

So, DS7 comes home today and tells me that his accelerated math teacher told him today, "you're Mom is not in charge of your education. The school is."

I am certain that she said it. How is the appropriate way to handle this?

I'd probably have to sleep on it for a few nights to stop my blood from boiling ... then I still don't know how I'd react!

I was thinking of writing, DS says this. Of course you didn't say it Ms Teacher, because that would be a terrible thing to say. Could you clarify what you meant so that I can better support your mesaage?

I do not think I would say anything to a teacher about a single, out-of-context statement that my 7-year-old reported to me. It might make me think or watch what was going on more closely, but that is about it.

I don't think I'd say anything either.

Ask this-- are you "in charge" (technically or philosophically, I mean)?

Probably not-- unless you are homeschooling or this person is a one-to-one tutor in your employ. Right?

I'm only "in charge" of my DD's education when I am the one making all of the pedagogical decisions, after all.

I don't actually think it's such a terrible thing to have said-- depending upon the context, as MoN points out; it's the kind of thing that can be a flippant, even playful response to "I don't want to do it your way," and ubiquitous "you can't make me because my mommy will..." statements.

Unless you have SERIOUS misgivings about the teacher otherwise, I'd explain that in that classroom, the teacher makes the rules, not you.

{shrug}

But take into account that this is precisely the kind of thing that DD might have pulled at 4-7yo in order to manipulate ME into going to bat for her over something she didn't feel like doing/complying with. Other children, could be a different situation.

First, I would have to find out exactly what the rest of that conversation was. (With my kids, that could be extremely difficult.)

Depending on the answers to that, I might tell the kid to stop giving the teacher a hard time and do what she asked, or I might go down and raise the roof on the school, or something in between.

That would annoy me but it is TRUE from the school's perspective. You are in control of where he learns but if that where is a school that gives them most of the power.

I find that hard in a lot of ways. Ds6 came home singing "grandma got run over by a reindeer" today - not a song iwould have taught him even though it is funny.

I tend to get fragments of conversations from my ds at that age, and still do.
He has a way of challenging authority at times. I wonder where that came from? LOL

This sounds like evidence of some kind of power struggle, either between your son and the teacher, or between you and the school. I infer from the statement that the teacher is aware that you and/or your son have misgivings about what goes on in the classroom. It's possible that the teacher has the same misgivings but ultimately has to follow school policy. It's also possible that the teacher is resisting making the accommodations you and/or your son want.

Whatever the case, I think it's important for teachers and school officials to recognize that they provide a service to parents, who are the arbiters of their children's education. School policies don't apply outside of their walls, and parents decide whether or not their children enter those walls.



Agreed.

I would say the teacher was right, in a way. The school is indeed in charge of your son's education, because when you registered your son for school, you put them in charge.

You can delegate authority, but not responsibility, which is why, ultimately, final responsibility and authority still rests with you. If things aren't going right, the school still has to answer to you for it.

Well said. And yet there seems to be a change occurring to make parents agents of the state, evaluated by and answerable to government schools, regarding the child's education. The larger the proportion of disengaged parents who are not supporting their child's education, the wider the door is opened for government schools to oversee and monitor parenting. Many districts offer parenting seminars and schools have the ability to monitor inside the home via school laptop video cam and microphone.

Seemingly unrelated policies and practices are put in place, akin to lining up a row of dominoes. Then one small change occurs (similar to tapping the first domino) and far-reaching change takes place very rapidly (similar to the chain of motion as each domino falls and taps down the next). This analogy is not original, it is called the domino effect.

It is my understanding that maintaining any semblance of parental authority into the future, parents need to keep an eye on legislation, and be willing to contact their State and Federal representatives. Ensuring and expanding parental rights, including the right to home school, is key. Once that is gone, parents are indeed agents of the state.

Stepping off my soapbox...

Oh, moms are in charge of children's education. To start with, they (and the dads, hopefully) get to decide which school (and in some cases, which teachers) their children go to.

Is this one episode of a long story between the family and the teacher? If this is just an isolated event, I might let it go but from now on I'd watch this teacher very carefully.

Policies have changed rapidly over time, from children assigned to local neighborhood schools, to forced bussing, to the open enrollment many families enjoy today, and the creation of charter schools. All these changes occurred legislatively. Laws are passed, and with the stroke of a pen, the future changes.

Parents who may wish to remain in charge of their child's education going on into the future may be wise to read the websites of their legislators, sign up for their newsletters, and contact them about maintaining parental rights and homeschool rights. Freedoms are lost daily. We, the people, are surrendering them... oftentimes unknowingly.

Hmm ... The teacher is wrong. My DS sometimes misunderstands concepts taught in school (I hope so, because it is hard to imagine teachers botching up historical facts in a good school), mispronounces words etc. He argues with me when I correct him - he tells me that his teacher is in charge of his education. I correct him and say that ultimately, the teacher is answerable to me if my son learned something wrongly. And I am the boss - because I hired the school to educate my son and if things are taught in an unsatisfactory manner, I as the person "in charge" will have to take it up with them or find another school to meet my child's needs.
Let your son understand that ultimately, you as the parent is in charge of his education. Beyond that, there is no need to "deal" with the teacher for this incident, in my opinion.

I would take a different approach and suggest to your son that ultimately HE is in charge of his learning as he is in charge of his own body and eventually his own life. It is how he chooses to do things that will determine his future.

I would suggest that you (parent) and the teachers and school are there to partner with him to help him fulfill his potential and reach his self-appointed goals.

If this means he needs to allow the teacher to assist him then he needs to understand her role in the equation. If this means he needs to come to you with concerns or questions about his educational path then this means you and he can work together to help him be on the path he needs to be on to feel content, engaged and stretched.

Show him the bigger picture of education and it may enlighten your understanding of what he is experiencing in this (and other situations).

Off the bat this comment does sound like a power struggle - my initial response was extreme and out of kilter to be honest and I had to walk away, think about it and then come back to answer.

Well said.

Thanks everyone. I did not contact the teacher right away. The next time I saw the teacher, we chatted. SHE brought up this incident and said something to the effect, "just so you know - we're in charge here - you're not." I wasn't surprised. They school is pretty upset about the partial homeschooling. Mainly they are concerned that others will find out about our arrangement and there will be a mass exodus of families who partially homeschool. (Lots of families know about our arrangement and as far as I know, no one else is interested in doing what we're doing.)

Anyway, a couple of days later I sent an email to the teacher and cc'ed the principal. I just thanked her for her concern about DS. I let her know that we have taught DS that he is ultimately in charge of his learning in the moment. Also, there are subjects that we teach at home and subjects that are taught at school. We follow and support the teacher's rules for a particular class at school and reinforce that with DS. (And this is true.) I asked her politely, to contact us directly if she has any issues that she would like to discuss. Ultimately, DS was kind of disturbed by the teacher's statement and conveyed that to me. I let her know that DS was upset about it and asked that we work together to be sure that this child is surrounded by a team of adults who care for him.

It's not a great situation. I continue to monitor DS to see how he is doing in her class.

Whoaaa...I don't know but it usually looks to me like it is out of necessity most times not for an ego boost!

I would also be interested to hear the supporting arguments behind this premise. I'm also eager to hear the research that has led to a unified view of homeschooling motivations, given the known uniqueness of children and families in the gifted set.

I partial homeschool my 3 kids, and have done since my eldest (13, tenth grade) was in preschool. TBH, I would rather not have to do this, but have no choice.

Here are just two reasons:

1. Most of my kids' math teachers don't understand math. Those that did were wonderful, and there was no math-homeschooling when they were teaching my kids (3 teachers spread across 3 kids since 2004).

This year, DD's math teacher marked her wrong because she wrote that the prime factors of 28 were 7*2*2. The "correct" answer was 2*2*7. So much for the commutative property. I could go on (and on) about this teacher's mistaken ideas about math, and did in another thread, but this one example should be enough for anyone who understands maths to be face-palming. But when I teach my kids about number lines and relationships between the standard algorithms and how to reduce everything they do to "formulate a strategy and then solve doing one step at a time" I'm just boosting my own ego, right?

2. Most of my my kids' teachers don't get giftedness. Like DS13's pre-K teacher who didn't care that he knew how to read and so had him spend the year putting his finger on the letter B along with everyone else in his class. He learned nothing from her the entire year. But I only read with him at home to boost my own ego, right? There was nothing about brain development there.

An unfortunate fact is that very intelligent people recognize the shortcomings in the education system and recognize a duty to compensate for it. Another unfortunate fact is that people who aren't very intelligent tend to not recognize this problem. It's a mess and it stinks. Some work with their own kids. Others (myself included) are involved on other levels as well. We do the best we can and broad statements like yours just make the situation worse.

What I don't understand if people's schools are so bad why send them there. The original poster mentioned about their school being worried that parent's are going to start homeschooling. That prompted the school doesn't need you kid comment.I remember growing up with the thought that teachers were all knowing. Obviously that wasn't right. But if you come on the forum you think all teachers are idiots.I don't buy that either. It seems the tendency now is to believe the kid before the teacher. I'm sure if I went to my daughters teacher and compared her to a kid in a sandbox I'm guessing she wouldn't take that well. Would you? Maybe since my daughter is in a school district that has a magnet program (she's in 6th) I may be a bit spoiled. I think if you want to homeschool that's fine. I guess I'm just more of an all or nothing sort of person

Well said.

This year, my ds12 has no science teacher as she quit near the start and therefore, if I want him to learn anything in science, it's imperative I afterschool him. I'm also having to supplement his math because he's skipped 6th grade.

I would much rather not have to do these things. I'd rather spend more time encouraging him to work on his novel or do other sorts of activities with him. I don't like it, but I simply cannot leave it all up to a school, which for various reasons, cannot meet its responsibilities in educating my child.
Ego boost? More like treading water struggling to stay afloat.

As for why stay with public school? For some of us the cost of private is daunting, and from the research I've done I'm not sure the private school near us understands giftedness as well as the public schools.

And to take this a step further, homeschooling, partial or whole, incurs an opportunity cost of foregone parental income. Homeschooling, itself, is a luxury.

What got me with the start of the thread is I and some others on here thought the teacher wasn't wrong with what she said. She and the school are in charge of the kids education. You're not there. I think that should have explained to the kid immediately instead of running right away to the teacher and complaining. Teachers aren't always right but there not always wrong either.I understand you're situation and it seems to be the right thing that you did. But a lot of thing come up on these threads seemed to be just to complain about things IMO that aren't really problems.The original post on this thread seemed to be one of them.

I don't see anything in the OP about a complaint. I see, "this happened... how would you react?" Am I reading it wrong?

This is really excellent context for understanding that statement!

(I also wanted to thank you for updating about this.)

Ugh-- power struggle between home/teacher due to inappropriate educational placement options at school, right? Sounds like this is a situation that bears watching. You did good, IMO, to carefully explain that talking to your SON was a poor way of expressing concern/frustration with the larger situation, which should involve mostly (or even solely) ADULT to ADULT conversations.

I think that most of us with older kids have either been there before or are there now with partial homeschooling. I know that I certainly have been, and it always makes me sad to know that the fit is SO bad with SO much standard curriculum; in primary, this seems to be especially true. I'm certainly not stepping in as an ego thing. Definitely not. If school does a good job, then I'm quite pleased to just stay in the background and ENJOY my role as parent-not-Professor-Mom.

Yes, also, to homeschooling ultimately being a luxury for many families.

It really sounds as though the teacher is engaging in a power struggle with this particular parent and child.

It would have been perfectly correct for the teacher to state "My classroom, my rules."

That's completely fine (IMO) and also reflects a subtle reminder to a student that while the "rules" might be different at home, at school, in that classroom, they are what the teacher has made clear.

So the teacher is in charge of his/her CLASSROOM. Education, ultimately, is a shared responsibility between student/educators/family. Philosophically, I mean.

It sounds as though there are some underlying insecurities being played out over the choice to partially homeschool/afterschool in this particular situation, however.

As I said at first-- if I didn't have reason to suspect that more was going on, I'd approach this with "Well, what do you think the teacher was telling you with that statement?"

However, the OP clearly does have good reason to strongly suspect that this was manipulative or even a bit passive-aggressive on the part of the teacher. THAT needs to be dealt with. Problems with the educational choices being made by parents and administrators are not things to address with a young child who is in your duty of care. KWIM?

Thanks for your input! As to why I continue to send my child to this school - it's pretty simple. 1. He is extremely social, so he really wants to be with his peers at least for part of the day. 2. I actually like some aspects of the school and am happy to have my child exposed to those things. 3. I still believe that every child deserves to be included in public school and also deserves to be met where they are at. 4. We have other children so if 1 goes to private school, likely the rest will need it. That's not cheap.

I have really struggled with coming to terms with the current state of public education. I have worked in public and private education for years, so I have watched the decline. Truly, I am saddened by what I see now. Yet, I still hope that things may improve next year or sometime in the future.

What particularly irks me about my son's current school is that in their literature and in their weekly tours, it is clearly stated that this school meets EVERY child where he is at. They also state that they will write individualized education plans for EVERY child and will make sure that each child will progress at his natural pace. These are lies.

My son is not the first gifted child to enter this school. He is the first PG kid to go there (so they tell me). Almost every gifted child leaves this school by 2nd-3rd grade. We are still there because we are trying to make it work. We have tried every approach imaginable. I don't think the teachers are idiots. But I do believe that many of the teachers have a bias that many teachers seem to have - they don't think gifted children have needs and they don't understand the kind of damage they do when the needs are not met, not even a little.

Our whole adventure began with this school when we realized what my son was doing at school was so different than what he could do at home. He was thinking at home like a high school/college kid in some subjects. With the same subjects at school he was below or at grade level. When we realized the mismatch and respectfully asked the school what we could do about this as a team, we were told time and again to do nothing. He was at grade level, he passes the tests there is no need for concern. Is that ok? In the meantime, his attitude about the adults at school was growing worse and he started to develop anxiety. At 6 years old!

So, to make a very long story short, I don't partially homeschool my son for anyone's ego benefit. I do it because he deserves to be educated appropriately. I also do it because I want him to have respect for adults and I don't want him to think that school is about writing on worksheets, "I don't know." as quickly as possible, so that he can go off and read his books or doodle. I want him to learn how to actually work at something. I want him not to be anxious or depressed at such a young age because he found himself to be in a very stifling environment.

"However, the OP clearly does have good reason to strongly suspect that this was manipulative or even a bit passive-aggressive on the part of the teacher. THAT needs to be dealt with. Problems with the educational choices being made by parents and administrators are not things to address with a young child who is in your duty of care. KWIM?"

Thanks HK. We are hearing more and more about this kind of behavior on the part of the school for kids on both ends of the spectrum, unfortunately. It makes me so sad.

Some people simply don't have a choice. They are unable to, for whatever reason (financial, etc), keep their kids at home to homeschool.

As for the original post, I would have left the teacher out of the equation and simply said to my child that teachers are like anyone - sometimes they are wrong. It's that simple.

In our house, I'm in charge of our kids' education. Period. The school has made recommendations that I have followed, and others that I have declined. I have the final say.

I have an issue with school staff assessing students and implementing education strategies based on their limited setting-based and individualized exposure to each child. They simply don't know my kids the way that I do. They don't know the "whole" child.

I also have issues with curriculum gaps (lack of "drill and kill" for math facts being one - some kids, like my ADHD son, simply need it). If I left the school in charge of math, my son would reach high school completely calculator dependent.

Might I also mention, while we're on the subject of math, that in my grade 6 daughter's class, they are required to use calculators rather than having been taught things like basic percent calculations. I could go on...

Not to mention the fact that each teacher has my child for one year (usually). After those ten months are through, the teacher moves on to the next batch of kids and what happens to my child is no longer relevant to her. Meanwhile, I have the responsibility of ensuring that my child is ready for adulthood, so I see the impact of poor decisions later on.

Who's responsible? Me. Period.

No school at least to me can possibly meet the needs of every student.There slogan though isn't going to be we'll do what we please. I do remember the second grade days of my daughter passing out the multiplication tests to the rest of the class since she was already done. In our case homeschooling wouldn't of worked more because she'd wouldn't of liked that. She still mutters about books that aren't at her level (she's in a magnet program which is housed at a regular grade school). She's going to jr high next year and I was looking at the different tracks (math levels) and realized Calculus BC is 10th grade. There's other math but its sort of the end of the line for her. More my point is you can challenge them so much now but at a certain point(high school?) then what? I guess my daughter never complained that much when she was younger about the easy schoolwork. More my point and I'm not suggesting you but some overanalyze the situation their child is in and make it into something it's not.

You challenge them some more. You keep meeting your children at their level. It's not like the universe of knowable information is neatly self-contained in high school curricula.

To CCN's point, parents are the individuals equipped with the most accurate and contemporaneous understanding of their child's needs and abilities. Parents can choose to outsource some of their duty of care to outside educators, but they are ultimately the ones legally and morally responsible for providing their children with an appropriate education. Where the buck stops, there lies the power.

Yup... exactly. Well said.

The teachers, meanwhile, are hired by the district to teach one year's worth of curriculum. That's it.

You're right about no school can meet the needs of every student. I know how hard teachers work and most teachers, at least in the area I'm in, are very, very good. But even with all of our state's mandates for gifted education, even with our experience with great teachers, I don't see how, with our current education, we can meet the needs of the gifted minds without bandaiding and scaffolding the best we can.

Nicoledad, it sounds like your situation is ideal, and really, if it's not broke...well, you know the saying.

I was very much hands-off for most of my dc's education. I starting sitting up and taking notice when last year I discovered, quite by accident, that my youngest ds's perfectionism had been holding him back. And my eldest ds, who is 24 and thriving now, almost didn't graduate from high school because he never had to work hard at anything and once he received a scholarship to the school of his choice, he decided he was done.

You're right about we probably have the ideal situation. Ironically, we live in Illinois where there are no mandates.

Well said, CCN! I agree about parental responsibility, etc.
While this may be what we've been used to, a change has begun and may gain momentum like an avalanche... teachers/schools may do more than teach curriculum. In striving to gain positive personal or institutional reviews and financial benefit, they may perform social engineering: following orders to ensure all students even out in 3rd grade, closing the achievement gap or excellence gap by capping growth of top performers, and entering data (which parents may not be privy to) into longitudinal data collection and student information systems. Teachers may conduct various student surveys and activities designed to coerce students to volunteer personal and familial information (including health, possessions, financial, psychological, social, behavioral).

Interested parents may wish to know who their state and federal legislators are, read the position statements on their websites, be familiar with their voting records, and be willing to contact them for clarification or to express their views on education issues of importance to them. Some examples may be: preserving homeschool rights, protecting student privacy, parental access to minors' records, and parental ability to correct records.