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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 137
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 137 |
Hi - am wondering if anyone has or knows of success stories re addressing underachievement? There seems to be plenty of info discussing the issue, but not so much by way of practical, proven advice (recognising that kids are all different - am looking for gleams of hope as much as anything).
DS is 11 and things seem to be getting worse rather than better, making us all unhappy. Admittedly we've had some other reasonably hefty things going on, but still. I'm increasingly worried that, given his age, he might be on a path that's difficult to reverse, and so would really like to hear some first hand stories of underachievement being turned around.
Thanks in anticipation...
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 75
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Posts: 75 |
Thankfully I know many success stories. I definitely do not think 11 is too old--actually I think middle school is the best time b/c most of issues come out in middle school and you have time before high school to address them. I will say that at this age the reversal will be a lot of work on your part, and likely cause both of you a lot of tears and angst, but will be well worth it in the end. The common key seems to be two fold--first, identifying not only what the underachievement is but why is it causing such distress, and second is to find out what his "turning point" is to then engage him in something more meaningful/purposeful that he can run with and ultimately succeed.
Not sure if you want to provide more details, but hopefully there is a gleam of hope in there. Good luck!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 429
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 429 |
for our kid (at 5) it was a desire to blend in that was causing it. at first, her teachers never offered her anything appropriate and everything was easy for her, but she could see the other kids had to struggle with the material, so she hid her ability. when this finally came to light, the teachers didn't want to believe it, so DD had to "prove" herself to them. when she did, they offered her "differentiated" work - which wasn't accelerated, there was just more of it and she was expected to complete it faster, and always perfectly. so she decided it was better to not bother.
like mykids so wisely mentions - finding the "turning point" was key. i realized that for DD5, she needed to get back in touch with who she really is - what she really loves - and get comfortable with that again. all the underachieving (and other negative) behaviours were about projecting what she thought her teachers/peers wanted from her. so we're working on that - and (here's the success part for you!) it's starting to come back. suddenly she's not minding being the youngest (by 2-3 years) in all her extra-curricular classes - she's starting to understand that being ready for some things early is not wrong - it's what's normal for her.
Every Sunday it brooded and lay on the floor. Inconveniently close to the drawing-room door.
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 80
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Posts: 80 |
I also started going downhill in 6th grade. I'm a girl and can honestly say for me it was totally driven by wanting to be accepted socially. It didn't work anyway, sadly. I did manage to eke out a degree and I'm a very happy SAHM, but I still feel some frustration that I could have done more with my education, given my intellect.
What I wish my parents would have done was make me toe the line. I wish they would have actually checked that I did my homework (instead of just asking if I did it) I wish they would have helped me to find clubs that I fit in with. They did help me by finding better schools for me, but that meant that I changed schools a lot. Once to a magnet in middle school and then to private after my freshman year of high school. Both changes were for the better, but they were too late socially. Kids establish their groups in 6th and 9th in the US and I was a year too late with both changes. I think that's important.
I can't speak for your son, but what I wish my parents would have done would be to be obnoxiously involved on a daily basis. They were very detached. That approach didn't help me.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,228
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Note "Loc: Australia" so they don't have the US "middle school".
OP, what grade, school-type is it?
Watch out for peer pressure, bullying, general school apathy (including school staff).
Remind your DS11 that these people are just temporarily the people around him. His education will stay with him when they're long gone from his life. It's the education that counts.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 647
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 647 |
I also started underachieving in 6th grade (age 11). I got mostly Ds and Fs in grades 7-9 and then changed schools and did somewhat better because I was happier (for nonacademic reasons). But I still would get Ds in classes I didn't like. This continued until I was in my third year of college when I switched majors to something I found quite challenging (biochemistry) and decided I wanted to apply to MD-PhD programs. I managed to get As in all of my biology and biochemistry courses, though my extremely weak math background made it impossible for me to do well in any math-based courses.
I think the reason for my underachievement was a mixture of extreme boredom, executive functioning issues, and a touch of unremediated dyslexia.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 948
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Thanks for posting this. Parent of 11 year old girl here!
When she hit 6th grade, it was the first time that the kids could get bad grades even if they did their homework. The first time anybody had to study to pass tests. So, the kids started to notice that dd was getting good grades, and they were shocked that they weren't. Two of her buddies pressured her to join with them in underachieving and talking back to teachers, and generally doing things to protect their fragile egos. Thankfully, my dd said no and offered to help them with their studies. Then the "smart" group emerged, and they are pretty good friends but she says they are "uptight" about their grades and not as fun as the underachievers.
And as parents we were unsure. We are not authoritarian type parents. For 7th grade, we had thankfully been able to work out that dd would do three classes in substitution of the curriculum. We told her that we were concerned that she wasn't learning anything, and she agreed.
She thought it would be OK but, then the other kids noticed, and she really missed them when she saw them walking to class while she and I sat in the glass enclosed media center. She begged to go to the regular classes and I was really torn! She wasn't asking to be an underachiever. She was asking to be a regular kid. We had a lot of soul searching and I asked for advice here. Pretty much people told me to step it up and be the parent so that her options would remain open because kids this age are not ready to know what they want.
So, we talked a ton about "being true to yourself" and the reasons some of her friends were beginning to act out and how even though she was struggling, we had done a lot of work to help her figure out who she is and how she wants to live her life, and now was the time to put that work to practice. Well, she still wasn't ready to make the "right" choice. She decided she just wanted to be a regular kid and maybe even drop out of GT. SO, mom and dad had to be the parents.
We told her that she is who she is and she is unique in some ways that are very different from the other kids. And that we would not allow her to forsake her intellect. (we talked about cultural pressure from extended family who do not support girl intellect, pressure and confusion her friends were feeling, and how she could help them to be true to themselves while being true to herself.) We knew she was feeling turmoil so we were going to make some decisions and that when we make decisions for her, we know we may be making mistakes because we don't have all the information that is in her head, so we'd just have to try it our way and be flexible.
After the fireworks were over, she came to accept it, and allowed herself to engage in her schoolwork with me (prior to that it was like pulling teeth. I was getting exhausted trying to get her to show an interest). And now, even though it's only been 3 months, it feels like a year. We are at a place where she is feeling better about using her brain. And I feel like we have set the ground work.
This is probably way more than you need to know, but the bottom line is we learned that you have to be the parent and guide your child. I feel like in general, people feel better when they are challenging themselves and meeting goals. Nobody likes to plod along wondering if they could do more but not willing to take the risk, and then begin looking for something "safe" (like acting out) to stimulate their senses.....Not a good path, even if a necessary detour for some kids.
If you can show your child how to push themselves to meet goals that are in keeping with their personality and values, they feel better about it all around. Getting there is not easy, especially for kids who are not used to taking in outside direction, but it's so necessary and worth it. Says the parent who has just begun. I love this. I think you handled it extremely well and that your approach will serve your daughter well in the future. I think this kind of parenting would have made a significant difference for me as a middle-schooler. To the OP I think that in addition to specifically GT stuff, for parents of middle schoolers I believe the book Hold on to Your Kids is a must read. And for GT, I don't know if you have read the book Living with Intensity but I think it really helps in understanding ourselves and our kids. There is a version for teenagers that my daughter liked. http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Teens-Guide-Living-Intensity/dp/1935067001
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 314
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Posts: 314 |
Hi BKD. If you are happy to give a few details that might help with more specific advice and stories. 11 is a tough age. If your DS is in a bricks and mortar school and has reached the top of the primary grades, that can be a time when interest in school can slip. Things can pick up when the challenge of High School kicks in. Just the process of High School and more independence can help reignite interest in some kids. But, they need to be challenged as the superficial charge from changing schools doesn't last.
We found with DD 12 that not being challenged leads to all kinds of problems with self efficacy and self concept. Over coming that is hard work but is possible.
Thank you so much for posting master of none, made me want to cry. It's so true! We have to parent and it is hard work and tough love and we doubt ourselves and what we are doing. Well done. We are walking a similar path.
Big hugs BKD. a few books that you can get on Amazon including kindle versions are:
Why Bright Kids Get Poor Grades and What You Can Do About It by Dr Sylvia Rimm
The Underachieving Gifted Child: Recognizing, Understanding and Reversing Underachievement by Del Siegle
When Gifted Kids Don't Have All the Answers: How to Meet Their Social and Emotional Needs by Jim Delisle and James Galbraith. Good chapter on underachievers versus selective consumers!
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 137
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 137 |
Thanks so much for the thoughtful responses.
Squishys, Saritz and Kai - your stories sound like mine. And if there was one standout thing I wanted for my own children it was that they not have my experience of school. But he sounded just like me when he was talking about it - "so boring", "I don't care about those dumb things", "I hate school and I'm going to drop out as soon as I can". Etc.
As some have noted, we've got a differed system here, so he's just about to go into his last year in primary school, and then it's high school. So this last report really mattered in terms of our chances of getting into a decent high school. He's dropped from an A/B to a B/C and now to a C/D, with a lot of teachers' comments about talking in class and not working. Part of the reason he was upset with those comments was that he's apparently (didn't discuss with me) deliberately moved himself away from friends in the last few months so that he could concentrate more in class, but it obviously wasn't (soon?) enough to make a difference.
We changed schools at the beginning of the year to a more academic school that offered a multi-age class, and it seemed to be an improvement. This sudden drop has come as a shock to us all, but it's the last week of school so too late to ask any questions this year. Among my questions would be the discrepancies between his class report and the results of our national standardised testing. I'd like to know how a kid who scores out of assessed range for reading and maths in that testing only gets Cs in classwork.
I think it's a mix of problems - partly he's genuinely uninterested (and honestly I have to sympathise), partly he's a little daunted because the standard at this school is slightly higher and he'd lost a bit of ground in some subjects at the previous school. And partly he has absolutely no work ethic, which I need to address in a big way. Although will be battling the influence of the other parent on that one, which will be a large and ongoing problem. His father has very significant stress management problems (PTSD), to the degree that the boys are now living with me full time. But the influence is still considerable, and giving up/making excuses/retreating to TV or video games is the response of choice.
MON, I'm really drawn to the idea of talking things through with him and letting him make his own choices, as I'm not a naturally authoritarian parent either. But like you I think that the only thing I can do now is really come down firmly (on the father as well as the children). So what I'm currently leaning towards is maths tutoring in the holidays to bring him up to a really good standard, so that he's got at least one subject to feel confident about initially. Intrusive homework/project monitoring. Hotline to the teacher if she's willing, though really I don't have much faith in the education system any more. And quite possibly some draconian rules around TV and computer use.
Am anticipating ugly scenes and needing to meditate *a lot*. I just wish I could feel a little more confident that I'll be able to make a difference.
Deacongirl - thanks for the reference, I'll chase the book tomorrow.
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Joined: Apr 2013
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Watch out for peer pressure, bullying, general school apathy (including school staff). Agreed! Some may say school staff (teachers, admins, GT) may be the number one source of negative peer pressure, bullying, and apathy as they may quickly induce guilt/shame for being gifted. This may be done publicly in the classroom, triggering exclusion, objectifying the gifted student, and implying that the gifted student "owes" more than an even division of labor on group work. Other students may feel they have tacit approval for non-performance on group work and may slack off considerably, expecting the gifted student to fill in for them without complaint. The gifted student may then be blamed for poor attitude regarding group work experiences, upon any attempt to discuss the truth of the group dynamics. Learning environments which are moving more quickly to embrace a model guaranteeing equal outcomes may exert greater pressure in this area. Another source of negativity may be parents who'd like the gifted child as a foil, drawing attention to and highlighting their own child's greater accomplishment/achievement in a particular area. Once again the gifted child is treated as an object, being used for another's purpose, without regard to their own feelings, beliefs, preferences, or strengths. Underachievement as it relates to motivation and enthusiasm is covered beautifully in the book A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children. Chapter 4 discusses that a person is always motivated toward something, however that motivation may not be toward what the parents may like. In the examples above, the child may be motivated toward being regarded as a self-determining person, having some control over their circumstances, not having others ride their back over the finish line. Page 145 in Chapter 6 of A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children shares: Gifted children must learn ways to avoid feeling helplessly trapped by their situation. Remind your DS11 that these people are just temporarily the people around him. His education will stay with him when they're long gone from his life. It's the education that counts. Agreed. I would add the caveat that the child's education includes what one absorbs from the learning environment: power, politics of the system, and the sense of being objectified may all impact the child's sense of self-worth and have lasting effect on how the individual approaches/avoids situations and interacts with others throughout the lifespan. These sayings come to mind: "Once burned, twice shy"... "Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me." On a positive note, page 145 of A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children shares, They [gifted children] must take an active role in reducing their stress by viewing situations as challenges and as learning experiences. Long story short, considering the source(s) of underachievement in any particular case may be instrumental to understanding the student and supporting them in creating strategies which will better serve them. I believe others have said and I'll repeat that underachievement is not the problem but an observable symptom that there is a problem which needs to be addressed. Underachievement may be a person's maladaptive approach to solving the problem because they do not know a better way to solve it; the kiddo may need help in identifying the underlying problem and support in finding ways to resolve it. This reminds me of the recent thread on DSH, where one resource related DSH to unresolved conflict. Am anticipating ugly scenes and needing to meditate *a lot*. I just wish I could feel a little more confident that I'll be able to make a difference. You may enjoy insights gained from reading the book A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children. Combined with the BTDT examples from posters on the forum, applied in a way which supports the kiddo, appeals to a kiddo's reasoning, and encourages the kiddo to take charge... may be surprisingly easy to implement and have lasting results: in general they may need to be, feel, and act empowered, not powerless.
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