Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy can one homeschool a highly social child?

Our situation: DS7 has been accelerated 3 years in math at school. We had quite a long and painful process to get this accommodation. We have no other accommodations in place at school. We partially homeschool in the afternoons. We have been doing the partial homeschooling since the beginning of the year. The math acceleration has been happening for about a month.

This week, I was called to a meeting at school. There were 6 staff members present. The issue? They don't want us to continue with the partial acceleration - they are very afraid that word will get out and other families will want to do the same. Also, they recently evaluated his reading level. Turns out he is below grade level. So, this is evidence that the partial homeschooling is not working. Also, they want to discontinue the math acceleration. DS is forgetting to bring his homework assignments home. And no, they will not remind him to bring it home. He attends a 5th grade class, they will treat him like a 5th grader.

Never mind that he was formally tested with a full battery of achievement and 2E tests. Never mind that our tester recommended that he skip 2 grades.

So, I am really at the end of my patience with the school. I would like to just pull DS out now and homeschool him 100%. My biggest concern is that he LOVES his friends. He is an incredibly social child and I am really worried that he will miss his friends terribly. I know that he can see them afterschool and on weekends. But he will really, really miss riding the bus and eating lunch with them. How does one homeschool a highly social child?

You go to yahoo groups and join different homeschool lists in your area. Some will be good fits and others you will drop. The ones I like are ones that are just a list where you post different activities.

Like I might post: I am buying a block of tickets to a theater performance at a group rate. Anyone who is interested this is the date and time and cost. Send me the money and your spot is reserved.

Someone else might organize a park day. Someone else might organize a field trip to the nature center or history pioneer village or a meet up at the science center (we all had year passes). Another person might post all the things they find out about already going on around town that are free...like library time specifically for homeschoolers, a parks and rec PE program for homeschoolers, etc.

In my (former) group, you went to as many or as few activities as you wanted to. Sometimes people just listed friend requests...I need a science crazy buddy for a 7 year old boy or I need a family of kids and mom who like to ride bikes on the various bike trails we have (that mom needed for one of them to hang with the slower/younger kids and one of them to ride with the bigger kids).

To tell you the truth...between all the homeschool PE programs, cub scouts, religious education (CCD) class, gymnastics class, and then various fun activities I found on the yahoo list...he was socializing tons more than when he was actually in school.

Focus on the education, and the social life will take care of itself.

Wow, that stinks. Sounds like they are not trying very hard to make it work. When we grade accelerated DD I was worried it wouldn't work and then could we move DD back? And the basic attitude was that once you do it, you HAVE to make it work out--you don't do these sorts of accelerations on a trial basis. Total 180 from your school (probably either extreme is no good). Plus it sounds like the problem is not really your child so much as them worrying about things being difficult on themselves. What do they mean his reading level is below grade level? And what does that have to do with acceleration for math?

I have the same concerns about homeschooling. I think it can work if the child has plenty of other options to socialize and you can form a network with other homeschool kids. We don't have kids that live in our neighborhood so everything has to be arranged ahead of time and put on people's calendars. For us, it wouldn't be easy. Plus I know the kids really enjoy going to school even if the work is too easy. They like being with kids the same age. Tough decision.

Sweetie and 22B, thank you for the advice. I think that DS would have no issue making new friends and would even really enjoy the adventure of it all. But I just worry about missing the old routine, the old friends. I'm sure that it will all work out though.

"I can see why you've lost patience for this school. Following their line of logic, every child that is operating below grade level taught by the school is evidence that THEIR teaching is not working. There should be reports on % of students operating below grade level online if you want to go that route."

Thanks for that feedback. We've been advocating for a year now. I could write a book about all the craziness we've experienced with this school - as so many of you could too. The real issues are: they don't have a clue about gifted children let alone PG children (even after having multiple consultations with DYS people and our tester who specializes in G and 2E), there is active animosity towards gifted children and their families (we are the school who has the board of ed members who refer to gifted children as "little geniuses" and think they should just go elsewhere), there is no money in the budget to do anything meaningful for gifted children (they are just barely paying the rent at our school). So, I'm not surprised at the outcome. I am, however, very angry that they have strung us along meeting after meeting with empty promises and even have passively resisted making DS's acceleration work. (The kicker is that his math grades are almost 100% even with a few homeworks missing).

somewhereonearth, I can't help you with advice on homeschooling, but I'm interested in this question - I totally understand (and have seen first hand among my homeschooling friends) that there are many opportunities to offer up social experiences for homeschooled students, but I often wonder how it would work out for kids who are extroverted and really thrive off of a daily schedule that involves being *with* other kids for lunch, listening to teachers, recess, etc. I am not explaining it very well, but these are things that are hugely important to two of my kids in their overall functioning, and I honestly don't see how you would replicate that in a homeschool environment. My kids actually miss being in school when they're off for more than a two-day weekend (and just for the record, we're a fun family and our kids participate in a ton of fun and challenging extra-curricular activities as well as have friends outside of school - they just really really like the social part of going to school).

We've been lucky in that we've had options to choose from for actual b&m schools - I hope that you're able to find some solution for your ds. The idea that the school is trying to put up such a brick wall to his math acceleration *now* - after having already offered it - is just horrible!

Best wishes,

polarbear

My kids actually miss being in school when they're off for more than a two-day weekend

I've just had an a-ha moment! DS USED TO BE like this. For PreK and K, DS would miss school terribly on the weekend. Last year he would groan when having to return to school. Same this year. What has made school acceptable this year, for him is: the partial acceleration in the morning and the ability to leave for the afternoon. But he also loves the bus ride (15 minutes) and eating with his friends. Although, for K and 1, he would be happy to eat lunch with anyone. Now the group that he wants to eat with has dwindled down to 2-3 kids. Though he is sociable and polite, he is much much more selective with regard to who he wants to be with. And in fact, if he knows that a friend will be absent, DS will also want to be absent.

I am thinking that I am going to feel out the local homeschool community much more in the next few weeks. I am curious to see what is out there. If I could find just 1-2 interesting kids/families for DS, I think it may become a far more attractive option to DS.

For those of you who have made the switch from B+M schools to full time homeschool, did you ask your children what they wanted?

The idea that the school is trying to put up such a brick wall to his math acceleration *now* - after having already offered it - is just horrible!

Oh and it's not the first time the school has done this. Last year they accelerated him to a math class 3 grades up. He went once a week and did beautifully. They cancelled the acceleration this past September and offered "differentiation" in the classroom. After working with DYS and our tester, they put him back in the accelerated class. And they are putting up a wall again.

Honestly, I blame myself for staying around this long. They have shown who they are and it's my fault for believing that they would behave any differently.

If it is just down to two friends it would be easy enough to keep up with them and make one or two homeschool friends. My son skipped up to the next grade but he keeps up with his bestie from the grade he left through scouts and play dates. We did not skip him up in scouts but kept him where he was.

We also keep a carefuuly designed schedule. Here it is

Unless I'm taking it out of context, I'd disagree with this statement. It's my opinion that you'll need to work at providing plenty and regular options for social activities, that won't take care of itself. If your family provides those opportunities in abundance, with your child being very social, then it shouldn't be a large issue.

The majority of gifted children have every bit as large if not LARGER issues with social / emotional issues than they have with educational issues.

Maybe I should say, first make a decision based on what's best educationwise, and then figure out what to do about social life.

I agree with Old Dad, here-- at least until mid-adolescence, the relative importance of the two things may ultimately be about at parity.

Even though it may not seem that way now, having really excellent social skills (and a way to exercise them regularly) is perhaps even MORE essential to kids who are non-normative.

I say this as someone whose socially-adroit introvert has always been home-educated; you have to work QUITE hard to make sure that such children get very regular opportunities to socialize within a structured activity. Because that is what schooling provides in such abundance, and it's the foundation for working with others in higher education, in the workplace, etc.

The thing that concerns me about social life and homeschooling isn't that there are no socializing opportunities--there clearly are. I'd be worried about having the opportunity to develop *long-term, deeper relationships*, which have become quite important to DD9. Going to this art class for 6 months, then that science class for 4, then this soccer league for 4 months, then that Lego club for 5, doesn't give you the same depth of friendship as seeing the same group of friends daily at school and, essentially, growing up with them. If you have a consistent, long-term homeschooling group that meets frequently, this could be solved, but in our area these groups are loose or...odd. Of course, one CAN cultivate long-term friendships through parental effort and arrangement of playdates, but at school, this happens without my work.

These responses are giving me a lot to think about. I should have added, that in a year and a half, we will have the option to send DS to a local private school. So if the homeschooling thing doesn't work out, we could end it and have another good option.

DS has close friends from our religious community. We have been a part of it since before his birth. Also he has a lot of neighborhood friends. We live in an urban community where you can easily have 20 kids in the same apartment building who go to 10 different schools. We literally have friends at our doorstep who go to a different school than DS.

Our highly-social DD homeschooled at 7. She developed a long-term, deep relationship with another girl who was homeschooling just up the street. We arranged for the kids to have a scheduled "recess" together every day. They were not intellectual peers, but they bonded over other interests.

DD8 is now back in school, for pretty much the same reasons mon said, but also to expose her to a broader subset of kids.

My DD's magnet is on the smaller side, so she is developing long-term relationships for sure. If she had other close friends whom I could rely on to stay in our lives, it would be less of a concern for me. But this hasn't been the case for us. We have "casual" friends whom we see fairly regularly and whom she considers friends, but she hadn't really deeply connected with other children till the magnet.

And I also agree with mon about the leadership issue. However, I think it's possible to find ways to handle this...with effort.

Another concern for me is the ability to take direction from a variety of adults in a variety of higher-stakes situations. Taking adult direction is hard for my DD, so this is important!

(A great homeschooling coop could solve this problem, too. And there are other ways. But it looks daunting to me personally. )

Social life? Choose one.

[ ] B&M school with bullying, violence, drugs, gangs.
[ ] Homeschooling in the safety of home with loving parents and siblings.

Why the binary choices, though? Maybe:

[ ] move to a better neighborhood

ought to be a third choice?

After all, I can't choose the second option since my daughter has no "siblings." Should we not homeschool?

I mean, surely there are other alternatives. While I understand that some schooling situations are truly unsafe, I really don't like the homeschooling community's penchant for painting all B&M settings as "dangerous" and "damaging."

Just as not all homeschooling is nurturing and academically rich, not all B&M schooling is a cruelty-filled horror show.

It's all about the details. Child, schooling options, and family dynamics.

There are some social learning opportunities in school settings which are quite difficult to replicate for a homeschooled child. Those probably matter more to some children than to others.

Um, violence, drugs, and gangs? In a K-5 school?

You would hope not all but it depends on the home life a bit. there will be some violence wherever you are. Gang affiliations can spill from parents/siblings to little kids and drugs and alcohol seem to start making an appearance at 10 or so. Sex could be starting by fifth grade too. All these things should still be a small minority though I would hope.

FWIW - our local zoned public school does in fact have drugs and gangs at the elementary level. Really. The school that DS goes to is a charter school within this public school district. As far as I can tell, there are no drugs or gangs. I do feel that he is very safe at his current school. He's just not getting educated, that's all.

DD9 is in a magnet at a very poor Title 1 school where the gen ed kids are high risk by most standards, though we are not in a large city. We are not living in a bubble. Stats on suspensions for fighting, etc are published by the district and I see one or two per year or something like that for our school, so no real violence. No gangs for sure. I have never heard of an alcohol or drug incident. I mean, maybe--she's somewhat protected in the magnet. But the kids do mix. She is exposed to rough language and hears about rough home lives. But she is safe. Middle school, I freely admit, is likely to be different.

The OP's school dilemma was why we showed DD's school the Iowa Scale to give them objective criteria to defend themselves against the storm of 'me too' requests.

Statistically it just isn't likely that too many kids will jump the bars that the IS sets.

Absolutely LOVE this! lol.


We are homeschooling our extremely (EXTREMELY) social little girl, dd7, although I said it might not work out because she would be bored. After a couple years of elementary, she had lots of friends but 3 main kids she loved to hang out with, all boys for some reason. And her cousins, who fortunately live close.

One of her main buddies is homeschooling now, too, and the mom of the other two guys (brothers) is also seriously considering homeschool, so in the end she might not see them anyway if she *was* in school.
So, we have been lucky, but the real bottom line was school was not the place for her: she had vision issues which we are working on so that put her in an odd place reading wise, giving the school an excuse not to 'push' her. Nevermind every math pretest and iq test showed her miles ahead of k and 1st grade. For that matter, reading wasn't bad either, she was just holding her book funny and using 1 eye (yeesh!)

For now, and for us, this is a good decision; and she is motivated to socialize ALOT, unlike the rest of us, so I can count on her to remind me to make play dates for her when I would rather read a book and burn dinner. I mean she will be coming home from a party and asking about who we might have over when we get home! My ds13 sees more people because of her, and so do I.

While I understand the thought pattern, one also needs to be careful about shielding too strongly their child from the harsh realities of the outside world, otherwise, college will hit them like a stinking axe between the eyes where....

Bullying, violence, drugs, sex, gangs, unfairness, preferential treatment, very different educational styles, instructors who don't care whether you succeed or fail, and many other circumstances one learns to deal with in public schools is often magnified but seldom seen in home schooled atmospheres. Don't think this all goes away once one has a HS diploma in hand.

I've seen too many home schooled children devastated with culture shock from such a scenario. I'm not saying you can't prevent it, I'm just saying not all the problems go away with home schooling, in fact, it often creates new problems. Every situation has it's pros and cons.

My sense is it's not a question of whether to expose children to differences in perspective and experience as a homeschooled vs B&M student, but rather how and when to do so.

I see parenting as a process of training the child up to be his/her best self while, at the same time, giving your child the skills of self-knowledge and judgment required to navigate the world when things inevitably don't align with the child's inner world. This affects our family on a religious level, an intellectual one, and an emotive one. The gap has to be minded, and I can see well thought-out homeschooling being a solution to differences between the child and wider world because it fosters more opportunities for introspection and contemplation, which build maturity and coping skills.

Sure, as with vaccines, exposure is required to test these latent abilities. But I'd argue that the ideal balance on that continuum between exposure and incubation depends on the child and the unique environmental stressors.

I agree.

However-- I'm hard-pressed to identify an individual anecdote there in which the choice wasn't a deliberate move to "shelter" the child from the realities of the world as it is... most frequently motivated by ideological considerations in the parents.

Two varieties of parenting there-- those that believe that children are lovely little flowers that need to be nurtured and should be free to explore a world which is completely positive and never told "no" or presented with boundaries because those things are artificial limitations to the child's natural development...

and those that base their parenting on religious beliefs which they perceive to be undermined by other modes of schooling, or which they believe to mandate parents as educators.

THOSE groups of kids, absolutely this is a huge concern. It doesn't end well for them.

On the other hand, most parents on this board would be quite unlikely to choose homeschooling for either reason (certainly not as a majority consideration, anyway), and have little interest in limiting their children's exposure to the world at large.

KWIM?

How exactly does sending your child to school to be repeatedly physically assaulted prepare them for a professional career requiring a college degree?

I don't remember suggesting that we send our children to school to be repeatedly physically assaulted, if I did so by all means please point it out to me.

I think a lot of us are thinking in extremes here. The point of my post is that we have to be careful how much of reality we pull out kids out of, eventually they need to deal with that reality like it or not.

As with all things in life, I think this is a question of shades of gray. Religion would play a part in a potential decision to homeschool for our family, along with curricular fit, family scheduling, etc. Realistically, religious ideology will play a part in any schooling decision because I want my son to be educated by teachers who are sensitive to and respectful the nuances of the major religions, ours included. The reality is the fulfillment of those expectations can't be taken for granted ex ante. We often talk about how if you've seen one PG child, you've seen one PG child. I suspect homeschooling families are also dissimilar in their motivations or approaches, even if the initial impetus for HSing is giftedness.

Back to the OP of whether a highly sociable child's needs can be met by homeschooling, I suspect it boils down to local resources and the parent's availability to help forge and sustain deeper, more meaningful sure shelter relationships. I'm a believer that it can happen, by that the parental investment might be high, especially upfront.

Of course.

My point is that those are the only instances in which I can definitely identify a schooling choice on the part of parents making that kind of difference to their children as young adults. Those instances are rare.

Most homeschooling families that we've known-- and this would include families whose faith plays a role in their homeschooling ethos-- are not nearly so extreme.

I think that most parents who keep the child's needs at the center of the decision-making process wind up doing just fine, even when those choices seem strange or even unthinkable to outsiders.



We've home-educated an introverted only child, after all-- and she seems to have excellent social skills in spite of the "isolation" that most people think she must "suffer" from.

Developing sure-shelter, meaningful interactions with other human beings is quite a tall order for most HG+ children to start with. I'm not convinced that being excused from spending all day each school day with groups who are never (quite) true peers does much to swing that either direction, myself. It has pro's and con's.

Some people lead a sheltered existence. This includes parents who have the option of sending their children to B&M schools where the risk of physical harm to their children is not one of their primary concerns.

This can sometimes lead to such sheltered parents being overly judgemental of other parents who are less fortunate in their schooling choices and the sheltered ones accuse the others of being overly protective of their children against trivial, improbable or imagined dangers, when in reality they are legitimately protecting their children from genuine risk of major harm.

{shrug} No offense, but I don't think that anyone suggested that you weren't acting appropriately for your own circumstances.

We have kept my child from B&M schooling in order to keep her from a daily risk of death. Believe me, I get it.

It's just that most parents are NOT in those kinds of circumstances, and it's quite easy to convince parents to be fearful for their children. If local schools are that dangerous to a child without any particular difference that would make them more vulnerable than their peers... then what on earth is the local neighborhood like?? If the neighborhood is nice, then who the heck is at the local SCHOOL that makes it unsafe by comparison?

That's all I meant or intended.

I don't think that "fear" is a great reason to homeschool. Not for most people. Homeschooling should IDEALLY be see as a good thing, not as a last-resort that just happens to be better than a horrifyingly unacceptable alternative. Doesn't always work out that way, of course... but ideally, that's the case.

It's the same reason why it's always a good idea to examine a school placement with the idea that "there's always homeschooling." Desperation and feeling that you have NO alternative/choice is seldom good.

Neither a bad school placement nor relatively isolationist homeschooling is ideal as far as socialization goes, I think everyone agrees.

Neither homeschooling NOR B&M schooling automatically produces social benefits-- inherently. It's situational.