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    My oldest is in her last year of middle school. She is that gifted kid who will write a 20 page book report when the teacher only required something in the range of 5-10 pages. The extra effort is a combination of interest and perfectionism. She is a very efficient, diligent worker. She wants to attend a work-intensive IB program for high school next year. Between the demands placed on her by school and the demands she places on herself, I'm worried.

    Lately, we are having huge clashes over how much time and effort she puts into her homework at the expense of other aspects of life. I realize that there may be some teen rebellion against family seeping into the equation but I don't think that is all of it. This month, she is "off-season" for sports and it has been like pulling teeth to get her to do any exercise. She begged off helping her siblings make dinner on Sunday night - a once a week kid duty in our house - due to homework. She complained about weekend brunch with grandpa because it takes away from homework time. Over the Thanksgiving break, they had the week off school so we went skiing on Monday. While sitting on the lift, she told me that she had a nagging voice in her head that she should be doing homework. This last one really bothered me because she still had six more days before she had to go back to school.

    How have others encouraged a good life balance in their teens, particularly girls?

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    She sounds very much like our DD, also in the last year of middle school. Very tough on herself, works very hard, gives herself extra challenges, etc. she has always done this, but agree that as demands of school ramp up it can get overwhelming.

    We have actually noticed an improvement overall in this past year, though I'm not sure I could give you an answer as to why. My suspicion is probably not going to be helpful to you, though.
    Last year D became involved in her school's science olympiad team, a very intense, high-expectations group. The kids are expected to be independently (in pairs) preparing (with some guidance) for competitions, and because their team has a history of being quite successful, there is a lot of pressure. Anyway, the events are more or less open-ended, meaning that kids can never "finish" studying, or practicing or building for their events. Their team does practice a lot, but I think with that preparation came gradual realization that one needs to place limits and prioritize. They could never do it all, so had to sort of decide when they felt competent, confident, that they knew their stuff (or tested their machine enough, or whatever). Kind of like preparing for an audition- there is a sort of artificial limit (time), but kids can always practice more, make more improvements. I think the more of this kind of thing DD has done, the more easily she has been able to feel comfortable with being "prepared enough" if you know what I mean.
    I suspect some of her improvement in this area also has to do with general development and maturity- she is developing new interests (particularly socially) and is more willing to sort of "let go" in some other areas. It may also help that she has had a lot of academic recognition/external validation over the past year or so which has helped her relax somewhat on that front; she knows that even less than her full effort will be more than enough.

    I'm not sure if any of these musings will be helpful or transferable, but I think it's a great question. Looking forward to reading some other responses.

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    Originally Posted by knute974
    How have others encouraged a good life balance in their teens, particularly girls?
    On the one hand gifted kids may sometimes gather lots of interesting information and find it difficult to pare down. There is an art to paring down so that a reader can tell that much more went into a report and that the report represents just a sampling of what the student learned on the project. One technique here may be to keep the full report, then create another document in which the student pares down the work. In this way, all the fascinating research is still there for the student's own benefit... plus it can be drawn on to add selected content back into the report for continuity if needed (eliminating the potential panic of something being over-edited and becoming choppy).

    On the other hand, schools may apply huge pressure to perform, stating/implying this may make all the difference as to which college/career a child will be prepared/suited for... so it may seem to a child like the weight of the world is on their shoulders. A child may feel like they are dissenting, being non-compliant, bucking the system, and only hurting themselves, or setting themselves up to let their parents down... when in fact they are establishing healthy boundaries and sustainable balance in their lives.

    Under a guise of "differentiation", gifted & high-performing students may also in some cases be held to a different standard of output (rather than being instructed in advanced, complex, challenging curriculum). Their "challenge" may be in the form of being required to out-produce others (and even their own capacity) in order to achieve a grade. This is sometimes called differentiated task demands, and can cause burn-out.

    Internalizing their own best sense of a balanced life may be something a teen needs to decide for him-/herself in order for it to stick. Here are two books which seem to have a good approach which some may describe as showing the reader what they can be free of, because it is not serving them well. smile A book which seems to understand perfectionism very well and which many find supportive is "What To Do When Good Enough Isn't Good Enough". Another book you might like is "Perfectionism: What's Bad About Being Too Good". While insightful, these are written gently for kids, in a style that is fun and engaging.

    With any of these books it may be wise for a parent to pre-read and decide if it seems to be a helpful tool for their child. Wishing you, your family, and your daughter all the best with this. smile

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    Originally Posted by indigo
    One technique here may be to keep the full report, then create another document in which the student pares down the work. In this way, all the fascinating research is still there for the student's own benefit... plus it can be drawn on to add selected content back into the report for continuity if needed (eliminating the potential panic of something being over-edited and becoming choppy).

    [...]

    A book which seems to understand perfectionism very well and which many find supportive is "What To Do When Good Enough Isn't Good Enough".

    what a GREAT method. my kid is 5, but could use that already in her writing. off to suggest it to her now!

    also - indigo, i ordered "What To Do..." last week on your recommendation. DD5 and i are now working through it as a project for homeschool. she is definitely seeing many of her traits jumping off the page, but it's also interesting to watch her consider and reject other traits as being non-applicable. it's pretty cool to see her thinking so deeply about the issue, and i am feeling optimistic. thank you!


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    DD is in a gt middle school program and her perception of her self is somewhat warped by her comparison of herself to others on her team. "Mom, I'm not a perfectionist, you should what Suzie does." To which I gently respond that Suzie has nothing going on in her life but school and that DD should think about how her standards and work ethic compare to kids in typical middle school classes.

    I've been trying to draw some of these lines as suggested by MoN. We've had fights about saying that it is "good enough" and going to bed. DD seems to get the concept of "enough" when it comes to her musical instrument but not with respect to school. I get retorts along the lines of "you may not care about my grades but I do."

    Thanks for the suggestions. I'll need to get those books out from the library. Any other comments are welcome.

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    Originally Posted by doubtfulguest
    ... seeing many of her traits jumping off the page, but it's also interesting to watch her consider and reject other traits as being non-applicable. it's pretty cool to see her thinking so deeply about the issue, and i am feeling optimistic...
    Awesome! Thanks for sharing. It is great when a child knows his or her self well enough to see what fits, and readily dismiss the rest. smile

    It is wonderful to see this skill cultivated in one so young! smile There are life-long benefits to metacognitive awareness: One can recognize that others may experience something (as described on a page in the book, for example) in a way in which they personally do not. One can become practiced at recognizing when others project something onto them that does not originate within them. smile

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    Do you know any workaholics you can point out - "would you like to be/be married to/be the child of that person?

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    I'm uncertain you have to "deal" with it. The only time you need to address it would be when it's an unhealthy / unhappy behavior. As with anything else habitual, the only way you're going to get someone to change their behavior is for them to realize it's unhealthy or causing them unhappiness. With that in mind my might be asking questions relating to her happiness / health.

    Some people achieve balance by running from one end of the teeter-totter to the other, others stand in the middle of the teeter-totter We're all wired a little differently and as long as we're not doing ourselves damage then neither method is wrong.

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    Here is a recent Interview with Thomas Greenspon on Perfectionism, as found on the Davidson database. He is the author of several books on identifying and dealing with perfectionism.

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    Originally Posted by knute974
    My oldest is in her last year of middle school. She is that gifted kid who will write a 20 page book report when the teacher only required something in the range of 5-10 pages. The extra effort is a combination of interest and perfectionism. She is a very efficient, diligent worker. She wants to attend a work-intensive IB program for high school next year. Between the demands placed on her by school and the demands she places on herself, I'm worried.
    Perfectionism could result from a belief that to be successful one must attend a prestigious college (whether and how much it it helps can be debated, but it's not a must) and that to do that one must be a perfect applicant. Mistaken beliefs could be addressed if they exist.

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    Yes, managing expectations is important. Possibly the new book, Searching for Meaning can be of help with sorting out some of this? It is in a post on another thread: http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....8/Failing_and_Acting_Out.html#Post178038

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