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    #174914 - 11/15/13 09:22 PM Behavior problems in the classroom
    Gardengirl09 Offline

    Registered: 07/19/13
    Posts: 54
    Loc: Midwest
    We just had DD's conference, which was fine. No surprises. The teacher mentioned that she gets frustrated with other children when they don't follow directions or misbehave in class. There are two students in particular that cause a great deal of classroom problems. I have see one of the two yell and scream at the top of his lungs at a teacher for simply being asked to put a toy away that he brought with him in the am. He then started crying and yelling more. This happens frequently and has several trips to the Principal when out of control, according to DD.

    So, we talk a lot about ignoring bad behavior and focusing on choices we make.
    But, having said that I completely get why she becomes frustrated. Having time taken off of recess for some of the kids being too noisy when going out to recess would make me mad too! DD is a sensitive child. She likes learning and being challenged, maybe too much so.

    We've briefly visited with the psychologist that gave her the WISC-IV about this, and she and DD talked about some strategies. I think it's going to be a process. But, part of me wonders how much is classroom management issues teacher is in her 3rd year of teaching.

    Has anyone else had to deal with this? DD is in first grade.

    Thank you!

    #174915 - 11/15/13 10:09 PM Re: Behavior problems in the classroom [Re: Gardengirl09]
    puffin Offline

    Registered: 12/11/12
    Posts: 2031
    A lot of gifted kids are the melt down screamers so maybe the kids in question are reacting to an inappropriate environment. Or maybe something else is going on.

    Taking recess away is inappropriate though and taking the whole class' recess away is even less appropriate. Did you point that out to the teacher?

    #174923 - 11/16/13 04:50 AM Re: Behavior problems in the classroom [Re: Gardengirl09]
    eyreapparent Offline

    Registered: 10/20/13
    Posts: 73
    Loc: Canada
    DD is also often frustrated when other students don't follow directions or misbehave. She has a very keen sense fairness.

    Her teacher and I had a discussion about a behaviour problem yesterday. DD is one of the shortest kids in her class. She has to use a stool to hang up her coat and she shares this stool with another student. Apparently, for the past week he has been pushing her off of the stool and refuses to share it with her. She told the teacher and the teacher asked him to apologize. He initially refused and after being told that he would be sent to the office eventually apologized.

    DD was asked to come up with a solution. Her solution was that they would take turns going first on the stool. In the morning she would go first and in the afternoon he would go first. He agreed and then yesterday when she went to use the stool he pushed her off again and started screaming that he didn't want to share the stool with her. Completely frustrated. DD started yelling at him: You are always pushing me. Stop pushing me and then she actually growled at him. (Totally not characteristic of her, but she had had enough)

    Subsequently, his "cubby" area has been moved and DD doesn't have to share with him anymore - she gets that specific stool forever. He has to use a different one.

    I think it is unfair that your daughter is being punished by having time deducted from recess. Did you get a chance to explain to the teacher that part of her frustration comes from the fact that she feels she is being penalized when others misbehave?

    I do know our teacher has said that they have called in extra resources to assist with some behaviour issues that have been happening in our class. Is that something your DDs teachers are doing/able to do? Also, DD's teacher has made it clear that if she is feeling frustrated or that if she feels something is unfair to come and tell them. This very well could be a classroom management issue.

    We've also discussed ignoring bad behaviour and trying to make good choices. I'm with you, it's a process.

    Edited by eyreapparent (11/16/13 04:52 AM)

    #174924 - 11/16/13 05:02 AM Re: Behavior problems in the classroom [Re: Gardengirl09]
    kelly0523 Offline

    Registered: 12/15/11
    Posts: 187
    Is this a public school? I work as a noon aide for a public school, which means the teacher's have very little to do with lunch time recess.

    If this is a public school, let me just say that this is not uncommon. With "No Child Left Behind" and the push to mainstream kids who have social and learning disabilities; yes, there are going to be kids in the classroom who melt down and create such a fuss that it holds up the entire class.

    Think about it like this: You have 22 kids in line to go outside. One child pushes another or some other sort of "trigger event" happens. A child tells or is noticed and is asked to keep their hands by their side of their body (or some similar request). This child may have a sensory issue or some other issue that cannot process the directive as a request and perceives it as more of "I got called out in a group" and starts to cry and melt out and over react and create a disturbance in the line. The aide or teacher, who is standing alone with 22 kids now has to either 1)ignore and wait (which may get other kids doing things that they should not be doing) 2) ignore and walk (which might escalate the crier) or 3) take the time to deal one on one with the student to try to get everyone back on the right track (which unfortunately just takes time).

    I think that unless your children are privy to a team of adults working in their room then they may have to get used to being delayed for the sake of the team.

    Before I worked at the school in this capacity, it used to upset me too because my DD is a good kid and does not deserve to miss any recess time for her own behavior.

    Once I started working in that capacity I realized that the delay is for the safety of the "team" or group of kids at large. It is not fair, but it is necessary and sometimes life is not fair, but necessary as well. Teachable moment, IMHO.

    #174940 - 11/16/13 07:31 AM Re: Behavior problems in the classroom [Re: eyreapparent]
    indigo Offline

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4224
    Originally Posted By: Gardengirl09
    ... time taken off of recess for some of the kids being too noisy when going out to recess... Has anyone else had to deal with this? ...
    Originally Posted By: eyreapparent
    ... unfair that your daughter is being punished by having time deducted from recess... she feels she is being penalized when others misbehave... classroom management issue.
    Yes, this is so widespread that it has a name, actually two names: Group punishment and Collective punishment. Here is a discussion on a public forum 6 years ago, showing that parents have had issue with collective punishment for years. (link-

    PsychWiki shares this about Collective Punishment::
    The idea of collective punishment is to create an incentive for groups to regulate other group member's behavior. In effect, collective punishment is an attempt to induce a new social norm within an outgroup.
    Meanwhile some school districts which practice collective punishment also have policies which specifically forbid students from addressing another student's behavior, which may present a bit of a discrepancy between the two policies/practices.

    WikiAnswers addresses the question, "In school is collective punishment legal?" by stating that school children do not have the same "rights" which exist elsewhere in USA society.

    Treating people as groups rather than individuals may be more closely aligned with socialist and communist idealism, than with American ideals like liberty.

    Beyond the common example of missing recess, another facet of collective punishment in schools is collective grading: the requirement for students to perform group work and receive a common grade. This may have a punitive impact on a student's grade when others in the assigned group may abandon work or not perform according to requirements stated on a grading rubric.

    These practices appear to be ever more commonly adopted into more classrooms. While parents may band together and address this with their local districts, others may continue to leave the schools in favor of homeschooling.

    #174941 - 11/16/13 08:19 AM Re: Behavior problems in the classroom [Re: Gardengirl09]
    Gardengirl09 Offline

    Registered: 07/19/13
    Posts: 54
    Loc: Midwest
    DD goes to a public school.
    One of the boys that causes a lot of problems works with one of the behavior specialists. He's super smart and also goes to enrichment with DD. The child's mother recently told me that they found a counselor to meet with to help with their son's behavior issues.

    Our conferences only last 15 minutes. By the time the teacher goes through her "list" there is little time to discuss anything else. I think another meeting is in order, not only for the issues mentioned above, but they still have done nothing that they said they would in an educational meeting in September! Follow up emails have been ignored.

    A private school might be a better fit. Will that make her less likely to be tolerant of others? I don't know....

    Edited by Gardengirl09 (11/17/13 09:08 PM)
    Edit Reason: clarification


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