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    #174219 - 11/09/13 08:17 AM Re: What do you tell your DC before IQ testing? [Re: Loy58]
    madeinuk Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/13
    Posts: 1453
    Loc: NJ
    At the centre where DD was evaluated I was allowed to view the proceedings from a side room via a double mirror. I could see her flagging towards the end of the test - I had no idea of what to expect and had naively thought it would only take 30 minutes or so. Instead, it went on for over 90 minutes, at least, and I regretted not having brought a snack or a drink as the test spanned her usual school lunchtime.

    She had a great time and the tester even commented on how comfortable she was with a strange woman. She was engaged throughout almost all of the test until the last bits and having witnessed the whole thing myself I think that her lack of vigor towards end of the test was reflected in her a average WM scores.


    Edited by madeinuk (11/09/13 08:20 AM)
    _________________________
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    #174220 - 11/09/13 08:39 AM Re: What do you tell your DC before IQ testing? [Re: blackcat]
    Loy58 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/11/13
    Posts: 816
    Thank you all.

    Originally Posted By: blackcat
    I do think it helps to talk to the child ahead of time--but what you say depends on the child. Some kids probably need to be told very firmly that the test is important and they need to do their best, others (who might be anxious) might need to be told that the test is no big deal and not to worry about it.


    Excellent point, blackcat! Every child is different. Yes, and I need to somehow get across that the testing IS important/to be taken seriously, without making her nervous.

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    #174221 - 11/09/13 08:43 AM Re: What do you tell your DC before IQ testing? [Re: madeinuk]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4959
    Originally Posted By: madeinuk
    ... I was allowed to view the proceedings from a side room via a double mirror.
    Did the observation arrangements allow for seeing the child's overall body language and behavior only, or were any test questions/items discernible?

    Originally Posted By: madeinuk
    I could see her flagging towards the end of the test - I had no idea of what to expect and had naively thought it would only take 30 minutes or so. Instead, it went on for over 90 minutes, at least, and I regretted not having brought a snack or a drink as the test spanned her usual school lunchtime... I think that her lack of vigor towards end of the test was reflected in her a average WM scores.
    I'm sorry to hear this, as it seems the test center might have notified you in advance of what to expect time-wise and in regard to planning a snack for your child. Did the test center make any allowance for the possible impact on scoring, because the child had not eaten and was slowing down? It might seem that some arrangements for re-testing that portion might be made (with another test instrument) due to the unusual circumstances?

    Possibly this experience provides one more idea of what some families may want to tell their children prior to a test... the child may feel free to request a break to have their snack or beverage.

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    #174222 - 11/09/13 09:01 AM Re: What do you tell your DC before IQ testing? [Re: st pauli girl]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4959
    Originally Posted By: st pauli girl
    Aimee Yermish's article on Hoagies is great to read before an IQ test: http://www.hoagiesgifted.com/test_prep.htm

    Our DS was younger when he took his first IQ test, and we just told him that this was a fun test that would help us see how his mind worked, which would then help us decide where he should go to school. We told him to make sure to cooperate and answer all the questions, even if they seemed really, really easy and even if they seemed silly, since the more interesting questions would only come along if he answered the easy ones. (This was mostly a caution because at the time he was refusing to do things he thought were too easy.)

    I think most GT kids think IQ tests are fun. Hopefully yours will too! Try to get her a good night's sleep and a good breakfast ahead of time. Send easy to eat snacks along.
    and
    Originally Posted By: Loy58
    From reading the Yemish article, concerns that I have are: DD getting off-topic, DD getting silly, DD not focusing on what is being asked.
    I've always liked the Yermish article. It's been around awhile as it is dated 2002.

    I was finally was able to locate something I read years ago which had one important difference. It is an article from the Davidson Database, by Nadia Webb, dated 2006.
    Originally Posted By: Nadia Webb article
    It is standard among all of the psychologists who regularly test HG and PG kids, to start the subtests above their chronological age. It keeps the testing from being tedious or seen as patronizing.
    Beginning with questions above chronological age may be seen as one important difference from the Yermish article which describes the test as beginning with easy questions (the kind which many describe as inspiring kids to give silly answers, negatively impacting their performance score).

    This is not to detract from Aimee's article, as the purpose of the article is for parents to prepare children for what to expect during testing... even if a tester is choosing questions which are above chronological age, they may be seen by an HG or PG child as "easy"... therefore it may be wise to prepare a child that they may receive easy questions with obvious answers... so they can decide ahead of time not to be too silly if this occurs.

    = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * =
    Aimee Yermish article archived on the WayBack Machine -
    https://web.archive.org/web/2017*/http://www.hoagiesgifted.com/test_prep.htm

    Nadia Webb article archived on the WayBack Machine -
    https://web.archive.org/web/2017*/http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10404.aspx
    = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * = * =

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    #174223 - 11/09/13 09:18 AM Re: What do you tell your DC before IQ testing? [Re: Loy58]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4959
    Originally Posted By: Loy58
    It sounds like it is hard to really predict how she will do on this one test and I do feel as though she needs the extra challenge of the program.
    and
    Originally Posted By: Loy58
    Also, DD has started complaining quite a bit this year about being bored at school. I am very concerned about this. I do think that more challenging programming might help.
    You may have already shared this, but I am unaware... what does your school's gifted programming consist of?

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    #174224 - 11/09/13 09:32 AM Re: What do you tell your DC before IQ testing? [Re: Loy58]
    Loy58 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/11/13
    Posts: 816
    Indigo, that article brings up some interesting issues. Since we haven't selected the tester, we have no idea whether she will have a rapport with DD. DD is NOT primarily a "people pleaser" like some good students. She marches to her own beat. Also, I think "easy questions" could generate a "silliness" in her, as in, "oh, now we are asking silly questions....so I will get silly (and carried away) and provide you sillier answers - what fun!" I do not know that the tester will be assuming she is working with HG+ kids, although I am sure at least some of them are probably extremely bright.

    I do realize that each test is "only one test," and a "snapshot," but as a parent, it seems like quite a bit is riding on a single test with a "cut score." Particularly when she has "survived" so many other tests so far with "cut scores" (and scored well-above the cut-scores). Also, the next couple-few years of curriculum depend on all of this (and a child who is complaining of being bored) - that makes ME anxious (and I am trying not to let her sense that). DD has to have an "off-day" at some point, right? I just hope it is not on the day of the test. wink

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    #174225 - 11/09/13 09:52 AM Re: What do you tell your DC before IQ testing? [Re: indigo]
    Loy58 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/11/13
    Posts: 816
    Originally Posted By: indigo
    .. what does your school's gifted programming consist of?


    It is a reading/language pull-out program with a gifted teacher (math is completely separate). This is probably DD's strongest area.

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    #174226 - 11/09/13 09:56 AM Re: What do you tell your DC before IQ testing? [Re: Loy58]
    blackcat Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/23/13
    Posts: 2154
    It's too bad school districts rely so much on cut-offs on tests. I think this is esp. problematic in circumstances where there are a limited number of "seats" and kids have to compete for them. When DD bombed the CogAT their response was that DD would have a chance to take it again. Yeah, like her score would go up from 117 to 139 by taking it again--it just wasn't a good test for her! So my choice was either to prep her extensively to try to get her speed up, give up, or try to get them to use other data. I had to go around in circles before they finally agreed she could take another test, but I still didn't think the alternate test would be helpful. (Hence I had her tested privately rather than continue to argue with them about it-- and who knows if they will accept those results).

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    #174228 - 11/09/13 10:07 AM Re: What do you tell your DC before IQ testing? [Re: blackcat]
    Loy58 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/11/13
    Posts: 816
    Originally Posted By: blackcat
    It's too bad school districts rely so much on cut-offs on tests. I think this is esp. problematic in circumstances where there are a limited number of "seats" and kids have to compete for them. When DD bombed the CogAT their response was that DD would have a chance to take it again. Yeah, like her score would go up from 117 to 139 by taking it again--it just wasn't a good test for her! So my choice was either to prep her extensively to try to get her speed up, give up, or try to get them to use other data. I had to go around in circles before they finally agreed she could take another test, but I still didn't think the alternate test would be helpful. (Hence I had her tested privately rather than continue to argue with them about it-- and who knows if they will accept those results).


    I agree. Your DD clearly sounds gifted with that GAI and it is shocking that she could STILL be denied gifted programming. If these tests are truly "snapshots," then there has to be a better way than simple single test "cut scores." Perhaps if they could instead, look at the "bigger picture" of all of the data? I understand the fear of subjectivity by the school, but the Wechsler tests are starting to also sound subjective to me with the possibility of a "lack of rapport, etc." I do not know that there is "one perfect test."

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    #174229 - 11/09/13 10:24 AM Re: What do you tell your DC before IQ testing? [Re: Loy58]
    blackcat Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/23/13
    Posts: 2154
    DS's Weschler score back when he was 3 was 106 and it went up to 133 for his GAI on the WISC 2.5 years later. So did he get more intelligent? Was it because he was so silly and uncooperative the first time? The lack of rapport? I mean, obviously one of the tests is incorrect. A lot of people would have taken that score of 106 and assumed that it was an accurate test and shows his innate ability that is never going to change. The psych who tested him when he was 3 didn't even write in the report how silly he was, or how he refused to answer questions after a while. She just acted like it was a valid score. When we ended the test with DS she told me to bring him back and she'd try again. I thought about it and decided DS would likely act the same way. So I called her up and said that unless she has serious concerns about his intellectual functioning, I think testing should be discontinued. She then said that she scored his test (even though he never finished it!) and said that he was clearly fine. She actually wrote up the scores in an official report and mailed the report to me. i was shocked when I got it because he never finished the test.
    The school wanted those psych records to add to his IEP and I'm glad I never handed them over! That's one reason I wanted DD to be privately tested this time after bombing the CogAT--I really had no idea what to expect. Would she be anxious, shy, hyper and therefore we wouldn't get an accurate result? If she was tested by the school psych (who clearly did not want to give her the WISC), would she have pushed DD to give more detailed answers? Would she have told her to please hurry up when she was so slow? The whole thing made me nervous. I think a lot depends on the person who gives the test AND the child's attitude and effort.

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