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    #173943 - 11/06/13 05:08 PM PRC Genetic Eugenics
    thx1138 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/30/12
    Posts: 93
    http://www.vice.com/read/chinas-taking-over-the-world-with-a-massive-genetic-engineering-program

    Just sayin'. If true, for better or worse, its under the THINKING BIG category. Does raise more than a few moral, ethical, and philosophical questions.

    And well, later they'll have to educate them. I don't think of the stereotypical Asian education system, dependent on exams that test memorization of facts, and suppressing autonomy and questions, as particularly suited to GT kids, or the internet age. I wonder if this program will then lead to any educational reform there.

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    #173959 - 11/06/13 08:16 PM Re: PRC Genetic Eugenics [Re: thx1138]
    puffin Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/11/12
    Posts: 2035
    I don'tknow the news provider but given the tone of the article I think I will wait until someone else picks it up.

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    #173969 - 11/07/13 06:44 AM Re: PRC Genetic Eugenics [Re: puffin]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4230
    Originally Posted By: puffin
    I don'tknow the news provider but given the tone of the article I think I will wait until someone else picks it up.
    Three words: Brave New World.

    That's the title of Aldous Huxley's 1932 book. Some links that may be of interest -
    Wikipedia- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World
    Spark notes- http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/bravenew/
    The book is actually a short, quick read.

    Some have said that "science fiction becomes science fact". That may be happening in the OP's article. There are sympathizers who purport this may be creation of a utopia (rather than a dystopia) and their range of views may be easily found through online searches, including a series of BLTC weblinks which came up when looking for Huxley's Brave New World.

    The Utopia/Dystopia philosophical question is an important one and careful consideration and reflection on this may help individuals clarify their personal morals, ethics, and values. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystopia

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    #174072 - 11/07/13 05:15 PM Re: PRC Genetic Eugenics [Re: thx1138]
    mithawk Online   content
    Member

    Registered: 11/25/11
    Posts: 242
    Originally Posted By: thx1138
    http://www.vice.com/read/chinas-taking-over-the-world-with-a-massive-genetic-engineering-program

    Just sayin'. If true, for better or worse, its under the THINKING BIG category. Does raise more than a few moral, ethical, and philosophical questions.

    And well, later they'll have to educate them. I don't think of the stereotypical Asian education system, dependent on exams that test memorization of facts, and suppressing autonomy and questions, as particularly suited to GT kids, or the internet age. I wonder if this program will then lead to any educational reform there.


    This reminds me of one of my favorite movies, Gattaca, which envisions a future where the naturally born kids are considered "invalid" and face discrimination from the genetically selected kids.

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    #174132 - 11/08/13 07:37 AM Re: PRC Genetic Eugenics [Re: mithawk]
    Space_Cadet Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/30/13
    Posts: 42
    Originally Posted By: mithawk
    This reminds me of one of my favorite movies, Gattaca, which envisions a future where the naturally born kids are considered "invalid" and face discrimination from the genetically selected kids.


    Gattaca is one of my favorite movies, too! But I've been thinking lately about the fact that highly intelligent children have more and more opportunities to socialize together these days, through talent searches, admission to competitive colleges, and because gifted families are more and more likely to live in the same zipcode. Would it stand to reason that assortative mating will become more and more precise (er... accurate?) in future generations... Basically, given that people have more opportunities to marry their intellectual equals, will intelligence and LOG stabilize within blood lines in the future, without the "need" for artificial selection?

    I don't know... I'm not a hard science person and I'm still on my first cup of coffee, so I don't even know if that was coherent. :-) I will add that I am not sure if it's a good or bad thing to have "purebred gifties", but it is an interesting thought. My parents have widely differing abilities and the same is true for my siblings. But my DH and I have very similar abilities due to the way we met in college, so I wonder if our children will be more similar to us and each other. Could be fun to get a wild card... :-)

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    #174269 - 11/10/13 12:11 PM Re: PRC Genetic Eugenics [Re: thx1138]
    madeinuk Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/13
    Posts: 1448
    Loc: NJ
    I find the paradox to be deliciously ironic myself.
    _________________________
    Become what you are

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    #174463 - 11/12/13 09:32 AM Re: PRC Genetic Eugenics [Re: Space_Cadet]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2593
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: Space_Cadet
    Originally Posted By: mithawk
    This reminds me of one of my favorite movies, Gattaca, which envisions a future where the naturally born kids are considered "invalid" and face discrimination from the genetically selected kids.


    Gattaca is one of my favorite movies, too! But I've been thinking lately about the fact that highly intelligent children have more and more opportunities to socialize together these days, through talent searches, admission to competitive colleges, and because gifted families are more and more likely to live in the same zipcode. Would it stand to reason that assortative mating will become more and more precise (er... accurate?) in future generations... Basically, given that people have more opportunities to marry their intellectual equals, will intelligence and LOG stabilize within blood lines in the future, without the "need" for artificial selection?

    Charles Murray discusses the trend toward assortative mating in his recent book "Coming Apart".

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    #175048 - 11/17/13 03:29 PM Re: PRC Genetic Eugenics [Re: Bostonian]
    Space_Cadet Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/30/13
    Posts: 42
    That's very interesting. Thanks for the tip. I'm exploring some of the earlier threads discussing that Murray book. Seems like a can of worms grin

    In the later books of the Ender's Game series, there is a planet with a disproportionately large number of HG+ people... No spoilers, I'll just say that severe 2E issues keep that population "in check". (I find this interesting, as a person that happens to deal with 2e issues irl.)


    Edited by Space_Cadet (11/18/13 08:49 AM)
    Edit Reason: clarity

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    #182615 - 02/19/14 11:53 PM Re: PRC Genetic Eugenics [Re: thx1138]
    Edward Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/19/14
    Posts: 52
    Interesting read, thanks! smile


    Even if we could somehow raise intelligence through DNA engineering or all babies were born with the genius potential it is only part of the concept.

    Environment and education play a profound role, IMO even bigger than genetics. Experience, especially those from the care givers shape the wiring of the brain and thus the nature of reality processing.

    IMO, we should focus more on unconditional love and unlimited educational resources rather than classifying incredibly complex genetic systems which are entirely contingent on the environment, ie the environment changes gene expression.

    My point is I don't believe eugenics alone will be of any help rather more counter productive.

    Just my thoughts

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    #182997 - 02/25/14 05:02 AM Re: PRC Genetic Eugenics [Re: thx1138]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2593
    Loc: MA
    It's not just an issue for the Chinese:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/24/opinion/genetically-modified-babies.html
    Genetically Modified Babies
    By MARCY DARNOVSKY
    New York Times
    February 23, 2014

    ...

    Developers of these modification techniques say they are a way for women with mitochondrial disease to give birth to healthy children to whom they are related genetically. Some are also promoting their use for age-related infertility. These are worthy goals. But these procedures are deeply problematic in terms of their medical risks and societal implications. Will the child be born healthy, or will the cellular disruptions created by this eggs-as-Lego-pieces approach lead to problems later on? What about subsequent generations? And how far will we go in our efforts to engineer humans?

    These sorts of concerns were first voiced decades ago, well before the human genome had even been “mapped.” Those were the days when our accelerating knowledge about genetics led to over-optimistic hopes for quick fixes to an array of afflictions and grandiose visions of designing genetically enhanced babies to be more intelligent, athletic, musically talented and the like.

    More recently, many scholars, scientists and policy makers have urged a different approach: We should carefully and thoughtfully apply the tools of human genetic engineering to treat medical conditions in people, but we should not use them to manipulate the genetic traits of future children. Genetic modifications of sperm, eggs and early embryos should be strictly off limits. Otherwise, we risk venturing into human experimentation and high-tech eugenics.

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