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    #173309 - 10/31/13 09:38 AM Re: How to Hothouse Your Kid [Re: KathrynH]
    blackcat Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/23/13
    Posts: 2154
    I suspect the teacher thinks I'm a nut-case and she may even be lying to me. When I told her that DS tested at a Level O in January or February she said that the kindergarten comprehension tests are different and the questions are not as complex. But a Level O assessment is the same no matter what grade a kid is in, right?! That has been my experience working as a tutor last year, although I never actually gave anyone those assessments.
    At conferences she told me that they could not subject accelerate DS for math because of scheduling conflicts. She showed me an advanced workbook and told me she would have DS do it during independent work time. A couple days ago I asked DS about the workbook/harder math work and he insists that the math that he is doing is exactly the same as the rest of the kids. I asked the teacher yesterday about the workbook and she hesitated. She said she is mixing it up with other stuff and it's in his packet. I just don't know what to think. It's like the teacher is deliberately trying to sabotage any efforts to get DS to work at the right level. She is the opposite of hothousing.

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    #173310 - 10/31/13 09:39 AM Re: How to Hothouse Your Kid [Re: blackcat]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4291
    Originally Posted By: blackcat
    One other boy in the class was reading it as well.
    Cool!

    Originally Posted By: blackcat
    She said he could probably read more advanced material but she didn't have higher level assessments.
    Some may say the glass ceiling was at level O.

    Originally Posted By: blackcat
    First grade teacher says that DS is reading at a Level L. (is it a coincidence that this is the highest level she has in the classroom?).
    Some may say the glass ceiling is at level L. To increase the pool of books, some schools have made wish lists, used scholastic book fairs, obtained donations of used books, and had student-run community book drives. At one school, in response to student food allergies, some children brought a book to donate as an alternative to bringing a food treat.

    Some parents like to keep a list of books their child reads... including reading level, and date. Such lists may prove valuable for future advocacy... for example substantiating interests, and/or demonstrating independent preparation or self-study in an area, when an opportunity arises which may have prerequisites. This may become important especially if the student appears to be regressing in reading, to document what their true level is. As a bonus, kids may find adding a book to their list to be very exciting. (What kind of book would I like to add next... I've read a lot about _______ recently... maybe I'll read about ______... ) smile

    Originally Posted By: blackcat
    ... she said he needs to learn to answer comprehension questions better.
    Here are two stories of families having an experience like this...
    1) One family learned that the teacher's "comprehension questions" came with a grading key on which the teacher would tick off words which the child recited from the text verbatim. If a child put the story into their own words (for example, saying "pig" in place of "piggy", "rabbit" or "hare" for "bunny", "swiftly" or "quickly" for "fast") the child received a poor score for essentially demonstrating understanding/comprehension/vocabulary rather than rote memorization. It was not explained to the child that he needed to remember the story words exactly and say them back to the teacher... this was a "comprehension" test: tell me what happened in the story you just read.
    2) One family learned that their child elaborated, theorized, and thought deeply about the reasons why each character may have done what they did, other things they may have done instead, how he thought the author would be leading to one ending, and felt that may have been better than the ending which the author chose... etc.

    Obviously both of these kids were "beyond" in their comprehension of what they read. Some may say the test was flawed... or the testing conditions were flawed in not setting parameters proactively, for the child to keep in mind when discussing the story.

    You may wish to find out how your son's "comprehension" is being assessed?

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    #173311 - 10/31/13 09:39 AM Re: How to Hothouse Your Kid [Re: momoftwins]
    blackcat Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/23/13
    Posts: 2154
    Originally Posted By: momoftwins


    I have heard this from my 6 year old sons, who are also in first grade. I think they just do not enjoy sitting and reading one story for very long, and they don't want to read part of it and come back to it later. They just really aren't ready to enjoy chapter books, even though they would be able to read and comprehend them. They do enjoy reading non-fiction books, and longer picture books or longer "readers" and will read them instead.


    Yes, I am definitely seeing that. He will read very advanced science books but they have to have diagrams and pictures! But even if I give him a chapter book that has pictures, if there is any indication at all that it's a "chapter book" he turns up his nose. I have no idea how the teacher last year got him to read The Mouse and the Motorcycle without complaining.

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    #173315 - 10/31/13 09:46 AM Re: How to Hothouse Your Kid [Re: Dude]
    ashley Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/26/12
    Posts: 639
    Quote:
    "Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child can get them."

    "Chinese parents believe that they know what is best for their children"

    "Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu—which I wasn't even doing, I was just motivating her—"

    Etc.

    Dude, on the topic of Amy Chua, a lot of people tend to miss her whole point - every single thing she says in her book is not to be taken at face value. This is a really smart woman who is using a ton of self-deprecating, tongue in cheek humor to sell a lot of books on the topic of how she raised her daughters.
    Amy Chua's daughter got into an Ivy League college. Her daughters were not hothoused - they were highly talented, very smart and hardworking kids despite the impression that she gives. Her daughter Sophia loved playing the piano. It is a long shot for a hothoused kid to reach levels where they are invited to play in Carnegie Hall or get accepted to Yale. They "even out" eventually and burn out. Amy Chua simply uses certain stereotypes to reinforce her points - and it is comical and humorous if you look closely (maybe, I should have posted in the Tiger mom thread, instead).

    Hothousing parents tend to know that they are doing it - because it is harder to get the same results out of their kids than it is for the parents of kids who are excelling at something.

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    #173319 - 10/31/13 10:08 AM Re: How to Hothouse Your Kid [Re: Dude]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4291
    Originally Posted By: Dude
    Ms. Bainbridge has a bachelor's degree in psychology, and has published no peer-reviewed research papers on gifted psychology that I've found. That does not make an expert. She volunteers for a gifted organization, and has a gifted child of her own, which doesn't make her any more of an expert in the topic than many of us here.
    It is my understanding (and I may be wrong), that she also holds a doctorate degree, has taught at the university level, held a board position for a gifted organization, and has authored articles on gifted for nearly two decades. Peer-reviewed research papers may not be the only criteria for developing/sharing expertise on the gifted. Similarly, Hoagies Gifted Education Page is run by an individual without this credential yet few would doubt her expertise. These people were among pioneers in the realm of gifted; Much has changed and evolved in part thanks to their efforts.

    Originally Posted By: Dude
    Originally Posted By: indigo
    In summary, parents tend to know when they are hot-housing their kids.


    They do?? Keeping in mind Ms. Bainbridge's definition of hothousing as teaching a child something before they're cognitively ready for it, Amy Chua doesn't seem to know when she's doing it: Why Chinese Mothers are Superior

    "Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child can get them."

    "Chinese parents believe that they know what is best for their children"

    "Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu—which I wasn't even doing, I was just motivating her—"

    Etc.

    1) Yes, I presented Amy Chua's work in my first post in this thread.
    2) You truncated my post above "... parents tend to know when they are hothousing their kids...", removing the following: "Some parents believe these are good approaches to keep their kiddo/s competitive... Some may believe hot-housing works..."
    3) A source in support of Ashley's post: Amy Chua's website... in Ms. Chua's own words... http://amychua.com/

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    #173320 - 10/31/13 10:13 AM Re: How to Hothouse Your Kid [Re: Melessa]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4291
    Originally Posted By: Melessa
    ... ds... starting to say, "I can't." Makes me sad, and frustrated with school who thinks "he's fine".
    Might you encourage your son, saying, "you can't... YET..." so he might see the value in persistence? This is part of the growth mindset promoted by Carol Dweck, Po Bronson and others. There are short youtube videos... I've recently posted the links to them on another thread...

    The concept of fixed mindset vs growth mindset is nicely summarized in these youtube videos:
    Ashley Merryman & Po Bronson: The Myth of Praise (link- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs9fddMg71o) and
    Teaching a Growth Mindset (link- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXhbtCcmsyQ) by Carol Dweck whose research was mentioned in the Bronson video clip. These links provide quick summaries, their books contain more info. One aspect or application of a fixed mindset is that gifted kids, in order to be seen as "right" or "smart", may stop taking appropriate risks, possibly shunning a challenge and preferring easy work which may represent a level of underachievement. A fixed mindset may work against them and be exhibited as a lack of resilience.

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    #173322 - 10/31/13 10:24 AM Re: How to Hothouse Your Kid [Re: blackcat]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4291
    Originally Posted By: blackcat
    the opposite of hothousing.
    I think this is termed benign neglect?

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    #173323 - 10/31/13 10:24 AM Re: How to Hothouse Your Kid [Re: KathrynH]
    Melessa Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/11/12
    Posts: 393
    Indigo- my ds says "he can't" to think he CAN do, because kids at school are not doing. I have been gently encouraging him and pointing out that he can when he is willing to try.

    Recently, I have told him that it's ok to read different (aka more challenging books) at home. He doesn't have to bring them to school if he doesn't want to.

    As far as other things (math, science, etc), he asks lots of questions and talks outloud about coming up with his own solutions. This makes it easier to explore topics with him.

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    #173325 - 10/31/13 10:40 AM Re: How to Hothouse Your Kid [Re: Melessa]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4291
    Originally Posted By: Melessa
    ... "he can't" ... because kids at school are not doing.
    The negative effects of peer pressure... sigh.

    Good job overcoming this and encouraging him to read at higher levels at home. Great that he thinks aloud for exploring math topics! It becomes difficult to support, encourage, and advocate for them once they "hide" their ability and interest, attempting to fit in.

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    #173328 - 10/31/13 10:57 AM Re: How to Hothouse Your Kid [Re: indigo]
    Dude Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/04/11
    Posts: 2856
    Originally Posted By: indigo
    It is my understanding (and I may be wrong), that she also holds a doctorate degree, has taught at the university level, held a board position for a gifted organization, and has authored articles on gifted for nearly two decades.


    Her doctorate (not yet completed) is in linguistics, which has as much to do with the topic at hand as my expertise in service oriented architecture topologies. She's an English professor... again, unrelated to the topic at hand. I believe I mentioned the gifted organization.

    Originally Posted By: indigo
    1) Yes, I presented Amy Chua's work in my first post in this thread.


    Yes, you did. Was there a reason why you felt it necessary to say this?

    Originally Posted By: indigo
    2) You truncated my post above "... parents tend to know when they are hothousing their kids...", removing the following: "Some parents believe these are good approaches to keep their kiddo/s competitive... Some may believe hot-housing works..."


    Yes, because in the name of brevity, I tend to cut out parts which I do not intend to address.

    Bainbridge says hothousing is when you're teaching things that your child is not cognitively ready for, and Chua is saying she was teaching things her children were cognitively ready for. Therefore, by Bainbridge's definition, Chua was not hothousing.

    I say this to highlight two things:

    1) Bainbridge's definition isn't very useful.
    2) Chua illustrates how little awareness parents often have that they're hothousing.

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