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    Quote
    ... DD did a really extensive research paper on the subject of altruism as heroic behavior less than a year later. She studied the Righteous of Nations and the Holocaust for several months at 10yo, eventually concluding that nobody really knows why some people behave so badly, and others will sacrifice everything for people they don't even know. I have to think that this interest was ultimately triggered by that situation... While she has always been OE on social justice, this changed her.

    She has taken some terrible stuff and used it for good. What spirit! That's what many hope for our kids. Looks like she found this path for processing on her own, that is tremendous. I wonder how rare that may be?

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    ... I know other parents who strategize by bringing their kids into meetings-- ... I'm issuing a caution about that practice as strategy...
    Great words of wisdom. Some districts require students to attend parent-teacher conferences. As you mentioned, things may be said in this context which may negatively impact the child, while parents may feel blindsided and unempowered. (This is not the type of circumstance I was thinking of in my post after a side conversation; The conversation was about having optional, casual free-flowing discussion when it was believed the child was focused on something else and fully occupied.)

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    Before bringing DD to meetings, we asked her to write out her own thoughts on the topic at hand, and I read them out to the meeting. Nobody listened.

    We invited our DD to meetings because she wanted to be there. There was a point somewhere (I think 1st grade) where she got the idea that WE were the ones responsible for placing her in that grade level, so she thought we were the problem, and had lost trust in us. This partially explained the severity of her emotional problems that year, because at that point, she felt completely isolated. We had quite a job to do convincing her where the battle-lines had been drawn in those meetings. Bringing her in was important to re-establish trust.

    Several months later, the three of us were together informally in the vice principal's office discussing plans for next year, and the veep casually said, "Now that we've finally gotten the grade-skip idea off the table...", I interrupted with a flat, "We have not ruled out any options," and my DD got to see for herself.

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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    I still disagree and think that if things are being said ABOUT my child that she shouldn't hear-- maybe the adults saying them ought to be keeping those things to themselves. Be aware that they don't/won't, and they'll blame you for the hurt they cause. If it happens to be a classroom teacher... be aware that you're asking your child to be compliant with a person who that child KNOWS is untrustworthy and doesn't care about him/her. Few HG+ children are going to take that well.

    Finally-- consider that last point in a child with high social/emotional/empathetic skills. Even if they ARE NOT privy to details, if a classroom teacher reveals that kind of hostility, I'd consider that a do-not-pass-go kind of moment. No way do I believe that my child can remain ignorant about that adult's attitude toward her; I certainly don't need to tell her for her to figure it out.

    This is such TRUTH!! The roots of my son's anxiety disorder began with being exposed to this type of thing at 5 in a school that had been a safe and happy place for him. (It's a long story but the person who caused the harm was posing as a mental health professional, was unlicensed and eventually fired only after causing damage to many children who had the misfortune of crossing his/her path.)

    He shut down for nearly a year and only recently told me how he had "marked his shoe with blood as a reminder that this was not a safe place". He does not trust being in new places or with new people without me. He logically believes that if his happy school could turn so bad in an instant that he can't trust anywhere/anyone to be reliable. We have so much work to do to recover from this. Getting a hostile disability punishing teacher in his new school did us no favors in that regard. I'm not sure he can ever be the person he was before being put under the control of these 2 individuals.

    Last edited by HappilyMom; 10/16/13 01:46 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Dude
    There was a point somewhere (I think 1st grade) where she got the idea that WE were the ones responsible for placing her in that grade level, so she thought we were the problem, and had lost trust in us. This partially explained the severity of her emotional problems that year, because at that point, she felt completely isolated. We had quite a job to do convincing her where the battle-lines had been drawn in those meetings.

    Last year DD got to a point where she was hardly speaking to me because she was so angry. I came to find out that at least 3 people on the school's team (who she identified by name) had told her "Well, blame your mother - she's the one making us do this" whenever there was something DD didn't like. A fourth said the same but said "your parents" so DH got at least a little bit of the blame. In our last IEP meeting of the year, before the district decided to inform us that they were recommending Out of District placement, I called them out on this. I didn't mention names but said "At least 3 people in this room thought it was appropriate to say this to DD". Since the words were the same and being said by so many people it was obvious it was an intentional decision and part of a directive coming out of some meeting or other. When I said this to them 2 people looked intently at the floor, never making eye contact with me for the rest of the meeting, and a third said "Well I assume you are talking about me..." Odd how these reactions matched perfectly to those DD had attributed the remarks to. It took months of pretty blunt conversations and the help of DD's psych to get past that one...

    I asked the psych about bringing DD to a meeting so she could see for herself and psych was clear that she was too young. Now that a few months have passed and she is happy in her new school we have been a bit more open about just how hard we fought on her behalf last year. Just today I had to apologize yet again for the awful school she was in for kindergarten. As HK said some wounds are very deep and have a very profound effect. It's not easy when their strengths lay in the comprehension area and they are intuitive and sensitive to boot.

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    Originally Posted by Pemberley
    ... hardly speaking to me because she was so angry... people on the school's team... had told her "Well, blame your mother - she's the one making us do this" whenever there was something DD didn't like.

    This is the "divide and conquer" technique.

    Originally Posted by Pemberley
    ... It's not easy when their strengths lay in the comprehension area and they are intuitive and sensitive to boot.
    Exactly. Gifted needs go beyond academic, these kiddos need social/emotional support and affirmation just as any kid does.

    Quote
    Some districts require students to attend parent-teacher conferences. As you mentioned, things may be said in this context which may negatively impact the child, while parents may feel blindsided and unempowered. (This is not the type of circumstance I was thinking of in my post after a side conversation; The conversation was about having optional, casual free-flowing discussion when it was believed the child was focused on something else and fully occupied.)
    Whether someone may be refuting that a kid is lonely because they observe kids gravitating to them and flocking around them... or whether someone may be asking if a child feels better about a particular placement or accommodation... kids may feel badly hearing these things. They are not necessarily reprehensible things, but they may show a lack of understanding. For example, A kid can still be lonely when others enjoy their company, if this kid realizes the others may not be on the same wave length. Everyone has a different set of experiences and may believe they are being helpful (in this example, by pointing out how popular the child may be).

    Through various advocacy processes, we have become familiar with Socratic Questioning, including formulating a list of what the opposing views may be. Questions in this example may be, "Is the student aware of others flocking to them?" Might the student still be lonely? Why might they be lonely even when surrounded by others? Who does this student prefer the company of? (knowing all the while the answer would indicate - older kids, intellectual peers, adults) These types of questions may help remove an impasse. In this example, the parents might not just accept that the child is popular therefore should not be lonely. Rather, they may lead with questions to a possible solution of cluster grouping with others of similar readiness and ability.

    To take a more difficult example, upon hearing a child was "too much trouble", a parent might ask questions to quickly separate the "child" from the "trouble", and may ask an active listening question to verify that the opposing view being aired is centered on budgetary concerns, then reframe the issue as the budgetary concern and solve that.

    This may be difficult to do in the moment. With practice asking questions which crystallize the debate we become better at preparing for meetings and even thinking on our feet during random casual encounters which may seem to go awry.

    One person in a leadership position was known for questioning, seeming to play devil's advocate. What a refreshing surprise it was to later see him take all this information gathered by questioning, probing, and challenging, and draw on it to confidently answer each concern and objection posed by the opposition, effectively driving through much welcome change.

    While much of the meeting prep tips and advice from parents on gifted forums focus on beefing up our view, some find much success in considering opposing views and how they may be addressed.

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