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    #1679 - 01/21/07 11:24 AM handwriting v keyboard for 9 year old dyspraxic 2E
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    Alright you tell me which Mite should use in classroom work, the handwriting or keyboard.

    Here is a sample of some handwriting work he did in Sunday School this morning...

    1...Thir is prsen how loves a xxxx(letters indecipherable)
    2...hice t pepol no mater thier polir like me
    3...lov yor naber
    4...hep nabors anytime

    Finally, last week, Mite was allowed to keyboard for an report on crayfish. Below are some of my favorite sentences out of a 200 word essay he wrote

    1...Crayfish are very interesting animals from the crustacean family. Let's take a look at the appearance, behaviors and habitat of these interesting creatures.

    2...Crayfish have the most awkward behaviors of any animal that I have seen!

    3...Crayfish are feisty and vicious like their close cousins the crab and lobster.

    4...Watching them climb is very amusing. They are clumsy and awkward yet efficient.

    5...Crawdads flip their tails to indicate their agitation.

    I was so impressed! He was so impressed!!! I think he's beginning to like the idea of keyboarding even if he does "look different", but we aren't fully there yet.

    The classroom teacher is still against him using a keyboard because she says his handwriting performance is "right in the middle of the pack" and she says scribing or keyboarding gives him an unfair advantage.


    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

    Top
    #1681 - 01/21/07 07:54 PM Re: handwriting v keyboard for 9 year old dyspraxic 2E [Re: willagayle]
    Texas Summer Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/01/06
    Posts: 216
    Loc: Texas
    "The classroom teacher is still against him using a keyboard because she says his handwriting performance is "right in the middle of the pack" and she says scribing or keyboarding gives him an unfair advantage."

    I didn't realize that public education was a competition. This is actually one big issue that I have with the education system. Keyboarding is an extremely important skill that should be taught to all children. They all need to have the advantage of keyboarding. Think how much the writing (composition) of all children (especially boys) would improve if they did not have to spend so much energy on the physical aspects of handwriting. Unfortunately this is one more thing that we have to add onto the evergrowing afterschooling list.

    Speaking of which, does anybody have any recommendations for typing programs for young children?

    Top
    #1685 - 01/21/07 09:54 PM Re: handwriting v keyboard for 9 year old dyspraxic 2E [Re: Texas Summer]
    doodlebug Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/04/06
    Posts: 433
    Loc: Illinios
    Unfair advantage?!!!!! What is she talking about?! Unfair because he would be able to show what he knows instead of struggling to put something on paper? That's ludricous!

    Willa, I'm going to email you some stuff about classroom accomodations. This is at the top of the list. I hope the testing OT will also tell the teachers. GIVE HIM A KEYBOARD!!!!!!!

    There are two things to be done here. One is to work on his handwriting, so he can create legible handwritten whatevers at some point in life. The other goal is for Mite to produce written work as an assignment. For that, there is NO EXCUSE for the IEP to not read that Mite keyboards his assignments.

    Tell the teacher to have the other "middle of the pack" kids produce some written work on the computer. See what content they come up with. Maybe some of them need the thing too. And I don't know about you, but those writing examples do not seem "typical" of a 9 year old to me. Neither do the keyboarded sentences!!!

    I'm curious, how does he keyboard? One handed? Fast, slow, quick and easy or is it pretty labored? You can email me with that info!

    As for typing programs, we have one from Scholastic, Brain Play, that is for 1st to 3rd grade. It's called Roller Typing. My 5 year old has been pretty independent to follow the program.

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    #1693 - 01/22/07 08:29 AM Re: handwriting v keyboard for 9 year old dyspraxic 2E [Re: doodlebug]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    I like Mavis Beacon for ages 8 and up. There are lots and lots of ways to customise the "look and feel" of the program. I had to resort to bribery to get DS10 to do it, but boy-oh-boy has it payed off. It's one of the ways that drives home to everyone at the new school that he really is "different."

    For the record, his public school, which was a wonderful place, just not for him, started the kids with proper keyboarding in first grade and returned to it every year for a few months in their computer class. It wouldn't have been enough, I think most of the typing was learned at home, but it was wonderful endorsement.

    Can you imagine a 10 year old in a blazer and tie typing 90 words per minute with his head turning like a spinning top looking everywhere except at his fingers or the screen? This was discribed to me by one of DS10's teacher's. I wish I had been a fly on that wall!

    Smiles,
    Trin
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #1695 - 01/22/07 11:07 AM Re: handwriting v keyboard for 9 year old dyspraxic 2E [Re: Grinity]
    David E. Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 01/03/07
    Posts: 8
    Loc: Irvine, CA
    Our son is dysgraphic to the point where it hurts his hand to write more than a sentence at a time. As a result, we did not know what he was capable of in school. For math racers (timed addition, subtraction, times tables tests), he could never finish on time. For written responses to reading, etc. he would put one or two word answers. He was frustrated the most because he is so motivated to learn and excel yet has pain when he tries to respond.

    We told his fifth grade teacher and school principal he needed to take tests orally and they said 'yes', but never implemented anything. Finally, we tried a private school who had other dysgraphic students and they made accomodations for scribing exams. However, even there accomodations varied from teacher to teacher and from week to week. With the scribing accomodations, however, we were finally able to see what our son was capable of. The example you gave between the Sunday school writing and the school typing was what we saw when our son was in sixth grade.

    Only when he is allowed to have a scribe for every quiz and test and receive notes in class taken by a good notetaker is he able to perform well. If you were to make him write everything then he could accomplish almost nothing. With scribes he is taking calculus now, and he is only 13.

    When a teacher says it is an advantage to have a scribe, I might disagree. To be able to take your own notes and to do math problems with your own hand adds to the learning process. To use other people's notes and do math entirely orally is more difficult.

    I might also recommend the 'Pen Again' pen which allows your son to write using more of his hand than fingers. It did not help our son, but it is recommended.

    I would push for full accomodation in every subject if you want to really see what your son is capable of, and it looks like a lot from the writing sample. Good luck.

    David E.

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    #1697 - 01/22/07 11:22 AM Re: handwriting v keyboard for 9 year old dyspraxic 2E [Re: David E.]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Oh David E. -
    What a change you have seen in your son! It must have been a long difficult struggle. After problems like this are solved it seems to simple doesn't it. But I bet that while you were going through it, everyone had an opinion and a worry of their own.

    Congradulations.

    And yes, I've tried scribing for my son when he is very tired. Scribing Math is no advantage!
    Trinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #1698 - 01/22/07 11:22 AM Re: handwriting v keyboard for 9 year old dyspraxic 2E [Re: David E.]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Oh David E. -
    What a change you have seen in your son! It must have been a long difficult struggle. After problems like this are solved it seems to simple doesn't it. But I bet that while you were going through it, everyone had an opinion and a worry of their own.

    Congradulations.

    And yes, I've tried scribing for my son when he is very tired. Scribing Math is no advantage!
    Trinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

    Top
    #1704 - 01/23/07 11:04 AM Re: handwriting v keyboard for 9 year old dyspraxic 2E [Re: Grinity]
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    yeah. scribing math doesn't seem to help Mite at all. We are still trying to figure out accomodations for that. Scribing has helped in all the other subjects, but as with David's son, it is intermittent. Even though it is in the IEP, the teacher doesn't always let him scribe or send it to the resource room with him for scribing with the SPED teacher.

    I know he needs another education option. I just don't know WHAT the right option is yet.

    Homeschooling at this point is not possible for us. What things I do with him at home are successful, but I can't predict how long I would be able to maintain a structured environment for his progress.

    How can we accomodate math?
    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

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    #1715 - 01/23/07 02:49 PM Re: handwriting v keyboard for 9 year old dyspraxic 2E [Re: willagayle]
    David E. Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 01/03/07
    Posts: 8
    Loc: Irvine, CA
    It is certainly frustrating that accomodations are intermittent, and we too were unable to make it consistent at school. As a result we home schooled.

    To home school math, we hired a credentialed math teacher who came to our home three times a week and gave a one-on-one lesson. They sat next to one another so the teacher could scribe everything our son said as they solved problems together.

    Importantly, our son learned the correct vocabulary to use when dictating each math step. The teacher assigned homework each day and we acted as a scribe for him to complete it. The teacher wanted exact scribing rather than getting the answer correct because he wanted to know exactly what our son needed help with. We were lucky to find a teacher who had tutored for over ten years and really knew how to teach, motivate, and keep things interesting.

    With one-on-one teaching our son was able to move fairly quickly through the math textbooks. After nearly two years of this the teacher moved away so we enrolled our son in pre-calculus at our local community college last semester (he earned an A), and now he is taking honors calculus I.

    The good news is that in college there is a separate disabled student's office. Every class is fully accomodated with student notes (quality may vary) and scribing which is handled at the disabled student's office.

    The disabled student's office has had to hire a student scribe for quizzes and exams because you do need someone who understands the math to scribe the math. Therefore, they find a student who has earned A's in Calc I, II, and III, and hire them to scribe. This has worked nicely.

    We were fortunate with the private math teacher we hired. We tried to find an English teacher to do the same thing, but we could not find the right fit. If you ever need a tutor, find one with a lot of tutoring experience.

    It is important to come up with a solution for math scribing. Our son used to just solve everything in his head, but with bigger problems, you make mistakes and of course cannot show your work. You need to be able to scribe line by line to solve long problems. That was the first thing the math teacher told our son, making him slow down and show all of his steps.

    --David E.

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    #1718 - 01/23/07 04:29 PM Re: handwriting v keyboard for 9 year old dyspraxic 2E [Re: David E.]
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    I have thought that scribing math would help Mite access his strengths (verbal skills) to enhance the weak area (calculation). The school district, however, isn't sure "how" to scribe math.

    I'm still working on it though. They are going to accomodate him at this point by teaching him "surveying" strategies. I'm willing to let them give it a try, but I really think they need to scribe for him.

    Gosh! I wish they had SPED services when I was in college. I managed to plow my way through, but never could read my own notes and lost many points to professors who couldn't read my writing.
    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

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