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Ack! In a nutshell, at pick up today, the principal said that THEY know what's best for DS7 and he should repeat 3 years of math. That way he "will learn" not to mistake addition and subtraction anymore. And he will also learn to write out all 3 methods of Everyday Math multiplication - and stop doing one method in his head. 3 years!
I lost it. No, I didn't yell. I simply stated that I refuse to allow my son to repeat any years of math education. I stated that I will send in the appropriate work for him tomorrow and he is to work on that during math time and nothing else.
oh, maybe I'd suggest to the principal that you can teach him the material in question at home. I'm sure with his abilities he will be all caught up in a few days!
Yikes!! If it helps at all, I probably would have had the same reaction--I am not good in the heat of the moment But I think you're right--DD(now 10)'s worst year was 3rd grade, when the (private school) teachers insisted that she correct all her mistakes and not make any new ones before moving on...and moving on consisted of adding digits (e.g., going from 2-digit multiplication and division to 3-, to 4-, and so on). That was only part of the problem, but DD absolutely hated it.
I would try to find articles that might support your viewpoint, although I am very sorry I don't know of any off the top of my head, just anecdotal stuff I think from here and Hoagie's Gifted, but the general idea is that gifted kids can often learn new ideas and enjoy doing that rather than getting everything 'perfect' on problems they find boring. Then I might try to schedule a meeting, saying something like 'sorry, I was surprised by what you said at pickup and I would like to discuss it with you.' And then try to persuade. But if that's where the principal is at this point, I don't know how well anything would work regardless of what you said.
Sorry you're having to deal with this! Best of luck, Dbat
I'm not seeing the problem. You didn't yell, or otherwise misbehave. You described that certain things are non-negotiable, because in your mind, they're non-negotiable. They should know that.
Honestly, any school administrator who tells you to your face that they know your child better than you do needs to be taken down a peg.
Yes, Dude, 3 methods of multiplication. "Your son refused to illustrate the 3 different ways to multiply according to Everyday Math. He NEEDS to know that."
Here's the funny part: they agreed to let him work on his own at his level. So, maybe I should be this way all the time? I actually got somewhere today!
It's clear to me that we need to leave this school. Not just because of this. This nuttiness has been going on for almost a year.
Our options: 1.partial homeschooling (if they are ok with it), 2.private school that I think will certainly be a lot better but not perfect (I've already met with them, was blunt about our needs and what we're dealing with. They gave all the right answers. I have also talked to other parents in a similar position and I hear good things.) 3.full grade skip now to get him out sooner
full time homeschooling is not an option as DS would not be ok with that
I'm so upset still. Not just because of this but because they have been really deceptive and just awful all along.
The whole point of Everyday Math, theoretically, is that there are different ways to do things, and people should be able to find one they like. Not that they have to do everything three ways.
Yes, Dude, 3 methods of multiplication. "Your son refused to illustrate the 3 different ways to multiply according to Everyday Math. He NEEDS to know that."
Here's the funny part: they agreed to let him work on his own at his level. So, maybe I should be this way all the time? I actually got somewhere today!
Probably. People often back down when you stand up to them.
Perhaps I'm cynical, but I fear that teachers or administrators who get rigid about things like what you've described won't be interested in looking at much of anything you show them, including A Nation at Risk, books, or whatever. The sense I've had from many people is an overall lack of interest.
You may want to feel them out to see if they're interested in learning about giftedness. If they aren't, I'd take the victory and NOT apologize. You have nothing to apologize for (but they might).
Update: they have put DS7 back in the proper math class. He is in 2nd and goes to 5th grade math. A combination of many consultations with a Davidson consultant and a visit from the psych who did DS testing seemed to have done the trick.
So he will go to school in the mornings for specials and math and come home after lunch for all other subjects.
Sounds like a good solution. I think you were reasonable too. I think learning to do things more than one way is a good idea but only if there is more than one sensible method. I don't think there really is more than one way at doing most basic maths.
For multiplication, most of us memorized the times tables, and learned to multiply by what is described at this math advocacy link as the short method. (link- http://www.nychold.com/em-arith.html)
The other multiplication methods shown here are partial products, lattice, and Egyptian method.
For multiplication, most of us memorized the times tables, and learned to multiply by what is described at this math advocacy link as the short method. (link- http://www.nychold.com/em-arith.html)
The other multiplication methods shown here are partial products, lattice, and Egyptian method.
Yes, they use Everyday Math at my son's school. It drives me bananas. Interestingly enough, my PG STEM background husband says that he actually likes Everyday Math. He thinks that if teachers are properly trained to teach it as it was intended, that it would be excellent for differentiation and acceleration.
DS is excited to go back to the class in which he was supposed to be. Of course, the 2 month detour has left a really bad taste in all of our mouths, including DS. He has written off the adults in his school as being "not aware" and "not caring" of what students need who are "not bad" and "smart".
Now I have a headache. But these different methods are just ways you would do it if you had to do it without paper. These problems are complex enough to different ways but the different ways don't need to have names and rules. If I am doing maths and I want to check my answer I would automatically use a different way (there wouldn't be much point doing it the same way).
I have never seen everyday maths but I would have no trouble with "calculate x then verify your answer", I would have a problem with solve for x using method a, then method b, then method c.
Of course checking using a different pathway didn't come naturally to me when I was 8.
For multiplication, most of us memorized the times tables, and learned to multiply by what is described at this math advocacy link as the short method. (link- http://www.nychold.com/em-arith.html)
The other multiplication methods shown here are partial products, lattice, and Egyptian method.
I've just looked at this link. Oh, good gods in heaven, no wonder nobody is learning math anymore! Why do they have to make everything so freaking difficult? I practically gave up before I even got to the multiplication section.
There's a reason that all the traditional methods are known as the "short methods" -- because the others go all the way around Robin Hood's barn to come up with the same thing.
For multiplication, most of us memorized the times tables, and learned to multiply by what is described at this math advocacy link as the short method. (link- http://www.nychold.com/em-arith.html)
The other multiplication methods shown here are partial products, lattice, and Egyptian method.
Interesting. They have many methods for each arithmetic operation, but they don't have the standard method for subtraction that is taught in most countries.
Thanks for that link! We are so early in the school academics that it was helpful for me to visually see what the "methods" conversation with my son's (former) math teacher was heading towards. And Yikes!! That approach is a nightmare for my mathy kid. Glad we are now doing math the old fashioned way at home.
Interesting. They have many methods for each arithmetic operation, but they don't have the standard method for subtraction that is taught in most countries.
What method is that? They have the one I learned, but I'm just in America.
Interesting. They have many methods for each arithmetic operation, but they don't have the standard method for subtraction that is taught in most countries.
What method is that? They have the one I learned, but I'm just in America.
I am going to get into such trouble with our daughter's teacher! DD's gonna love the 'Austrian' approach to subtraction and I can already tell it will be much faster for her. I already put the kibosh when my DD came home with the 'alternative' multiplication methods and very politely told the teacher, "No way... not in OUR house!" So I just know this will warm the teacher's heart like nothing else.
Thanks 22B!
Being offended is a natural consequence of leaving the house. - Fran Lebowitz
Sorry, I hadn't been to that thread. Thanks for the links.
I look at that method and it seems totally counterintuitive. I guess I've never had any trouble with place values and borrowing and all that. It's perfectly clear to me why you take one away from the next place to add ten to the one that needs it. It's not at all clear to me why you would add ten to the one that needs it and then add something to something else. I can see that it does the same thing, but I can't see it being at all easy to explain to someone who doesn't know how to subtract. Am I missing something?
Sorry, I hadn't been to that thread. Thanks for the links.
I look at that method and it seems totally counterintuitive. I guess I've never had any trouble with place values and borrowing and all that. It's perfectly clear to me why you take one away from the next place to add ten to the one that needs it. It's not at all clear to me why you would add ten to the one that needs it and then add something to something else. I can see that it does the same thing, but I can't see it being at all easy to explain to someone who doesn't know how to subtract. Am I missing something?
In the American method you may have to reach way over to the left to "borrow across zeroes. It's totally unnecessary. The American method makes multidigit subtraction look ten times harder than it really is.
I went through the method with my son first. He has no trouble with subtraction, but appreciated the simplified notation. He pointed out that it would be especially helpful with long division where the solution trailing downward turns into a rat's nest with any of the regrouping nonsense.
Being offended is a natural consequence of leaving the house. - Fran Lebowitz
My sincere apologies to the OP for my part in the thread-jack.
No apologies necessary. It's been interesting to read what you have been writing about.
Even though I am somewhat pleased that my son is being accelerated to the right grade in math, for now, he is still going to have to sit through the nonsense of having to perform multiple methods to solve a particular problem. Sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't have pursued the acceleration at all - just so that we could avoid this horrible everyday math.
My sincere apologies to the OP for my part in the thread-jack.
No apologies necessary. It's been interesting to read what you have been writing about.
Even though I am somewhat pleased that my son is being accelerated to the right grade in math, for now, he is still going to have to sit through the nonsense of having to perform multiple methods to solve a particular problem. Sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't have pursued the acceleration at all - just so that we could avoid this horrible everyday math.
Sorry we did get off track. Think of the acceleration as shortening his time with everyday math?
Sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't have pursued the acceleration at all - just so that we could avoid this horrible everyday math.
Hmm.
It's just occurred to me to wonder if Everyday Math and Discovery Math and other reform curricula are aligned with the Common Core. I suspect not. But they will do probably change the font in their books and claim that they are.
I went through the method with my son first. He has no trouble with subtraction, but appreciated the simplified notation. He pointed out that it would be especially helpful with long division where the solution trailing downward turns into a rat's nest with any of the regrouping nonsense.
Exactly. I wish educators could figure out what your son just figured out.
