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    #165271 - 08/23/13 03:07 PM Re: Toxic Educational Practices-- a rogues gallery [Re: ultramarina]
    magicsonata Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 08/02/13
    Posts: 28
    Loc: Washington State
    Originally Posted By: ultramarina
    Quote:
    the academics don't matter because he has them down pat, what really matters is balancing him out, the whole child must be developed and his behavior is horrible so we must focus on that for now, there is time later to teach him more math/science/reading.


    I have a kindergartner who has the academics down pat AND is extremely well behaved AND socially aware, so it's going be interesting to see what they say he needs to work on. (Better hygiene? ...It's true that I'm bad about clipping his fingernails. Improved cafeteria skills?...He's slow at eating lunch.) I shall keep you posted.


    laugh hahahahaha That is great, yes they will find something.... the other excuse they are good at is, if we teach him 1st grade math in Kindergarten what will he learn next year? I don't see why teachers/administrators think this way but they do.

    Good luck!

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    #165273 - 08/23/13 03:17 PM Re: Toxic Educational Practices-- a rogues gallery [Re: HowlerKarma]
    Nautigal Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/22/09
    Posts: 1032
    Ultramarina, I have the exact same problem! DS isn't a problem for fingernails, because he chews his down to the bone, but DD sports some truly horrendous ones sometimes. And I have problems remembering to clip the dog's nails, too, because I've never really had inside dogs, and outside dogs keep their own nails worn down. For the kids (and me), appearance is an afterthought -- I'm lucky to get to the store and discover that DD actually has shoes on, and no peanut butter on her face.

    Scarily enough, that program Val posted sounds very much like our school and Everyday Math -- although as far as I can tell, they do still value correct answers. The rest, all the "family game night" and spiraling and teaching fifteen different ways to do everything, that's quite familiar. I did notice that DS's 8th grade math syllabus mentions that some things will be graded on participation and completion, not answers, and other things will be graded on answers, so maybe we're sliding now. It also seemed a bit heavy on the "math takes practice to be good" and "you will get better at math". Well, yes, I'd like him to practice and also to get better, but those seem to me to imply that everyone is expected to be awful at math.

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    #165277 - 08/23/13 03:34 PM Re: Toxic Educational Practices-- a rogues gallery [Re: HowlerKarma]
    DeeDee Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/16/10
    Posts: 2498
    Great thread.

    There are so many toxic examples, it's hard to choose.

    How about:
    "If you give a child with disabilities the help [he needs], he will become dependent on it, so it's better not to help him at all."

    DeeDee

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    #165278 - 08/23/13 03:36 PM Re: Toxic Educational Practices-- a rogues gallery [Re: HowlerKarma]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Everyday Math -- although as far as I can tell, they do still value correct answers.


    Wellllllll.... "correct-correct?" Or "correct-according-to-this-lesson?"

    Because I've seen some DOOZIES from Pearson Math curricula over the years. I'll let you know what my DD has to say about the redesigned "enVision" program which is ""Common Core-aligned."" Oh-- and the earlier grades, as noted, rely upon Spiral Reviews to Evoke Excellent Preparation.

    I guess I can see where when there isn't any right/wrong it might take some getting used to. Still-- it makes me wonder what sort of "permanent" they intended, there. I can readily see how "perfect" is meaningless in that scheme, anyway. So that part makes sense.

    LOL.

    __________________________________________________

    How about the entire notion that a child who has been grade accelerated must actually be at a much HIGHER standard of performance than his/her peers-- because otherwise, see, it's an example of a "maturity" problem. eek

    Wait-- I have a better idea. How about teachers and administrators stop to consider the fact that grade accelerated students are frequently used to: a) performing under a HARSH white spotlight among peers, teachers, and pretty much every one but mom and dad; b) needing to prove that they belong-- over and over and OVER again; c) knowing that the majority of observers are just waiting to pounce on any mistakes as evidence that they don't belong there (or don't deserve the opportunity/placement/honor)? Oh, and let's add in all of the opportunities that they DO NOT have by virtue of being "too young" for those things that are accessed purely chronologically... so add in a highly compressed timeline for some opportunities which depend upon both maturity, intellectual readiness, and AGE... such as summer internships, jobs, etc.

    Seems to me that "equal" achievement with peers several years older is actually no such thing-- it's really more like overcoming a serious handicap or three to achieve the same things. THAT ought to count for something. Seriously.


    Maturity? BAH. My 14yo is far more mature than any number of 18yo college students I've personally encountered. smirk

    MAYBE people doing the gatekeeping ought to stop and think about their biases long enough to realize that when they've met one outlier-- they've met one.

    Which brings me right back around to nasty educational practices:

    Assuming that not being (mathy/creative/assertive) means that you can't REALLY be a gifted student.

    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

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    #165344 - 08/24/13 06:47 AM Re: Toxic Educational Practices-- a rogues gallery [Re: HowlerKarma]
    doubtfulguest Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/15/13
    Posts: 429
    Originally Posted By: HowlerKarma
    [i]
    Maturity? BAH. My 14yo is far more mature than any number of 18yo college students I've personally encountered.


    oh! that made me think of a good one. when the people in charge of the learning environment run up against an obvious outlier they (figuratively) run screaming from the room yelling, "it's not developmentally possible!" which is, i guess, a really great strategy because it allows them to DO NOTHING.

    and ha, we have some issues with our old nanny (who we now consider a friend) when i realized DD5 was drawing more mature conclusions about the nanny's life than the nanny herself was. i mean, she's 24 - and at 24 we all do dumb things... but it's a bit frightening when your five y/o just slices through all the BS, rolls her eyes and drops some truth right in her lap. good times!
    _________________________
    Every Sunday it brooded and lay on the floor. Inconveniently close to the drawing-room door.

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    #165354 - 08/24/13 08:31 AM Re: Toxic Educational Practices-- a rogues gallery [Re: HowlerKarma]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2277
    Doubtfulguest, that must make for some interesting conversations!
    _________________________
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

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    #165357 - 08/24/13 09:18 AM Re: Toxic Educational Practices-- a rogues gallery [Re: aquinas]
    doubtfulguest Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/15/13
    Posts: 429
    privately, i'm very grateful for my kid starting to process parts of the adult world - it's less emotionally-charged for her to be thinking about these difficult subjects now than it will be when she's that age. i love literature for these reasons, too - it's a wonderful way to explore ethical and emotional issues safely.

    but that said... DD's extreme maturity has wreaked some havoc in the nanny/kid relationship for sure. this pause in their friendship is a loss for both of them, but fortunately DD5 is pretty phlegmatic about it - as she says, "X has some things to work out right now and that's ok." i've consciously emphasized life's grey areas quite a bit with DD, so i think that has helped a lot?
    _________________________
    Every Sunday it brooded and lay on the floor. Inconveniently close to the drawing-room door.

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    #165501 - 08/26/13 08:01 AM Re: Toxic Educational Practices-- a rogues gallery [Re: HowlerKarma]
    1frugalmom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 312
    Loc: Central United States
    Originally Posted By: HowlerKarma
    Because I've seen some DOOZIES from Pearson Math curricula over the years. I'll let you know what my DD has to say about the redesigned "enVision" program which is ""Common Core-aligned."" Oh-- and the earlier grades, as noted, rely upon Spiral Reviews to Evoke Excellent Preparation.


    Yes, Yes, please!!! Our district is jumping into Pearson Digital which will include enVision Math as well as Write to Learn and Reading Street, etc. I've browsed some of the instructional videos and I'm not overly impressed.

    The Pearson rep. really played it up, explaining how kids that are above level can advance through the program, but I'm doubtful about how far the school will really let a kid go.

    I might just need to start a new Pearson thread to see if anyone else has an opinion.

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    #165502 - 08/26/13 08:07 AM Re: Toxic Educational Practices-- a rogues gallery [Re: HowlerKarma]
    DeeDee Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/16/10
    Posts: 2498
    Most of the reps who sell these new math curricula have undergrad degrees in English or Communications... the ones I've met can answer specific questions neither about math nor about best practices in education.

    Nevertheless, oh, the enthusiasm they inspire among administrators.



    DeeDee

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    #166379 - 09/03/13 09:46 PM Re: Toxic Educational Practices-- a rogues gallery [Re: HowlerKarma]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3290
    Loc: California
    We forgot an important one:

    Rigor = More Homework

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