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    #164716 - 08/18/13 01:16 PM Re: Innoculation against external messaging [Re: aquinas]
    Quantum2003 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/08/11
    Posts: 1432
    I am not sure that there is an effective innoculation until the child has acquired the intellectual/emotional ability/level/sophistication to comprehend/internalize that you cannot assume the truth/correction of anything you hear/read. While I cannot pinpoint when it occurred, it was obvious to me that DS10 was over that particular hurdle at age 5. Fortunately when he was very young, I don't think that he particularly cared or paid attention to strangers' comments. These days, I don't need to say a word as while DS remains polite, he does get this look (not as rude/obvious as eye-rolling) that confirms that he recognizes the hyperbole.

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    #164718 - 08/18/13 02:33 PM Re: Innoculation against external messaging [Re: aquinas]
    ultramarina Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/24/10
    Posts: 3428
    Quote:
    we will always give her an unvarnished opinion of her performance/results. Our standards are VERY high. If she does a half-baked job on a school assignment, I'm likely to be more honest than the teacher is.


    Yeah. This is one of my few tiger-mom areas. If DD does a cruddy job on something, I do tend to tell her it isn't her best work, even when I know she would get a fine grade on it. She doesn't like this, of course, and sometimes she gets really mad at me, and I wonder if I'm being a jerk.

    I don't necessarily make her re-do it. I just give her some honesty, because someone needs to not be throwing glitter at her all the time when she phones it in.


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    #164722 - 08/18/13 03:54 PM Re: Innoculation against external messaging [Re: ultramarina]
    DeeDee Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/16/10
    Posts: 2498
    Originally Posted By: ultramarina

    I don't necessarily make her re-do it. I just give her some honesty, because someone needs to not be throwing glitter at her all the time when she phones it in.


    LOL, glitter. I think the honest measure is very important. We are striving for frankness at our house too.

    At the same time, my DS11 needs calibration about where the "enough effort" line is. I could see him phoning it in at a job someday. I could also see him becoming an extreme workaholic because he was so afraid someone wouldn't like his work. What I'd like for him is in between. We try to talk with him about where the "good enough" line would be for a given task...

    In my own life I had to learn to find "adequacy." I kind of wish that for him too.

    DeeDee

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    #164725 - 08/18/13 04:44 PM Re: Innoculation against external messaging [Re: aquinas]
    ultramarina Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/24/10
    Posts: 3428
    Yes, I agree that it can be tricky. You don't want them to then go the other way either. And sometimes it's okay to let it go, especially with a dumb assignment. What I don't let go is repeatedly sloppy work in quantity OR a half-assed job on an interesting assignment.

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    #164726 - 08/18/13 04:51 PM Re: Innoculation against external messaging [Re: aquinas]
    ultramarina Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/24/10
    Posts: 3428
    (I'm not going all Joan Crawford on her either. I just don't hand out praise all over the place when it's not due. I'll tell her it's okay and she'll probably do fine, but I don't think she really tried too hard. Or I'll ask her if she thinks it was her best work. If I'm lucky I can work in some humor and disarm her into admitting that she phoned it in. She's getting a lot better about that.

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    #164729 - 08/18/13 06:33 PM Re: Innoculation against external messaging [Re: aquinas]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Yeah-- my DD will almost always give me this cat-into-the-canary-cage expression and then turn sheepish.... Aw shucks, ya caught me...

    I always ask her (under those circumstances in which-- er, "glitter" seems somewhat excessive--) What do you think of (your effort on this/how that went/what happened)?

    The closest I've come to Joan Crawford (er-- or for that matter, Amy Chua) was when I told my DD after a piano recital that I thought she owed Wolfy's ghost a major apology for profaning his work.

    I also made her go home and play it the way I know she can play it-- and pointed out that she kinda wasted the awesome rate of return on the grand at the recital... bummer to play the alla Turca on an upright.

    It doesn't seem to have harmed her any-- because it was said with a great deal of humor, and with a "Well, no, it wasn't good. But-- you DID keep going. You didn't stop and burst into tears when the wheels came off. Good recovery. I'm sure that Wolfy will be happy to accept your apology. I hear that he really likes improv." wink

    She still loves the piano sonata in A, still plays it regularly at breakneck speed and it's a favorite warm-up for her now. So it's all good. She also learned a good lesson-- make excellence YOUR benchmark, and don't worry about each individual performance. Nothing awful happens if you make mistakes. But don't put nail polish on that sucker and call it a beauty queen, either. LOL.

    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

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    #164814 - 08/19/13 08:46 PM Re: Innoculation against external messaging [Re: aquinas]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2499
    Originally Posted By: HowlerKarma
    In our experience, there IS no great, foolproof way to do that.

    The more unusual your child is, the more these messages will resonate with them (because let's face it, high intellectual ability often comes with perceptiveness and a great deal of insight per unit age)...

    ergo, they KNOW that they are unlike their peers. They know that they are more capable, that others seem "slow" comparatively, etc.

    Further, this lends credence to the value judgments pronounced by others because they are plausible.


    I'd be lying to say I didn't hope otherwise. I suppose I'll fall back on the old saw of repeating healthy messaging at home and framing others' comments in a way that promotes an internal locus of control.

    As I posted in the quirky anecdote thread, DS is already showing signs of internalizing other thoughtless and shaming comments delivered by my father. I feel that this is something I have to address now, even if just through sheer propaganda, until he's mature enough to really engage in a thoughtful two-way discussion. (That and muzzle my father.)
    _________________________
    What is to give light must endure burning.

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    #164815 - 08/19/13 08:50 PM Re: Innoculation against external messaging [Re: Quantum2003]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2499
    Originally Posted By: Quantum2003
    I am not sure that there is an effective innoculation until the child has acquired the intellectual/emotional ability/level/sophistication to comprehend/internalize that you cannot assume the truth/correction of anything you hear/read. While I cannot pinpoint when it occurred, it was obvious to me that DS10 was over that particular hurdle at age 5. Fortunately when he was very young, I don't think that he particularly cared or paid attention to strangers' comments. These days, I don't need to say a word as while DS remains polite, he does get this look (not as rude/obvious as eye-rolling) that confirms that he recognizes the hyperbole.


    I think you're on the mark. DS seems sensitive to others' comments--he's visibly put off by the excessive attention and fawning over what is treated as quotidian at home--so I'll need to carve out a roadmap for those years from 2-5.

    ETA: I don't mean for any of this to be construed as my not recognizing or praising DS' efforts/achievements. Far from it. I'm a cheerleader for whatever is new, exciting, and challenging. But I--and strangers and family-- don't need to hoot like a ninny every time DS reads a sign, does math, or uses a tricky word appropriately. He knows he can, we know he can, and DH and I show our pride by following his lead encouragingly. I think this is probably implicitly understood, so I'm likely being redundant. smile
    _________________________
    What is to give light must endure burning.

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    #164816 - 08/19/13 10:10 PM Re: Innoculation against external messaging [Re: aquinas]
    MumOfThree Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/07/11
    Posts: 1694
    Loc: Australia
    There is indeed a very clear line (to me!) between genuine and useful encouragement and "Wow what an entertaining little sideshow freak you are! Show us another trick!"

    We've luckily no had family members incline to the 2nd behaviour Andy third, the only one inclined to getting attention from strangers in public mostly gets "my what a little character!!" People seem to be at a loss for words for how outgoing and communicative she is rather than noting unusual vocab etc (and she's not reading yet, despite threatening to 2 years ago).

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