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    #163163 - 07/28/13 09:32 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    CFK, the credit thing is a serious concern only in terms of scholarships and class standing, as far as I can tell.

    It does matter in that if you come into an institution with college credits, the college itself may deem the student something other than a "freshman" on the basis of those credits, making them ineligible for financial aid offered to 'true' freshman who come in without earned (as opposed to AP) college credits.

    I do not know of any specific instances in which a student has been made to apply as a transfer student on the basis of credits earned prior to high school graduation... but one does hear stories about it from fairly reliable sources (like faculty).

    It's true that some institutions won't accept dual enrollment (or CLEP, or AP) credits anyway as transfer credit, though they may still consider them in determining placement.

    It just varies too widely to say for sure. There certainly seems little harm in doing dual enrollment for a child that needs more than their local school can offer, though. Aside from cost, obviously.

    I gathered that our local high school's plan for dealing with this would be to offer credit by exam (or simply do it quietly based on her grades in more advanced coursework and performance on standardized tests) and simply graduate my daughter officially once she outstripped what they could offer, which would have been during her sophomore year. Yet another reason we didn't go back to our local B&M school, given that DD was 12 at the time and this would have left her without much of a high school transcript for colleges to even look at.

    They recommended what CFK has done, incidentally-- to 'withdraw' to homeschool and send DD to the local community college or University (if we could get her seated, that is, in light of her age) as a homeschooling student. On our dime, of course. LOL.

    We did NOT do that primarily because DD is a polymath and therefore it wasn't that difficult to get her to a place where she'll hopefully be ready and promising in terms of entering a good-to-elite school at age 15. If she'd had a single area of profound ability, though, it would have been MUCH harder to choose to go this direction.

    In that case, we'd have opted for the path that CFK's family has chosen-- because there would have been little choice.

    Instead, we've been hothousing a few spots in order to get them up to speed for a general college experience rather than encouraging immersion in a single passionate interest and ability area.

    Different kids, different solutions, KWIM? The thing that irks me is that the virtual school is likely exactly what killed some math interest in my DD by not offering much direct instructional contact in secondary. It's been sad-- so 22B, in your case specifically, I'd say to take it as it comes. I would not be planning very far ahead on the basis of elementary experiences. Wait and see what happens in Algebra I, Geometry... much could change there depending on how your school handles those courses.

    _________________________
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    #163165 - 07/28/13 10:10 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    intparent Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/16/09
    Posts: 553
    CFK, just curious, what types of schools were these? State universities? Private universities? LACs? Ivies? Or a mixture? Thanks.

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    #163170 - 07/28/13 04:07 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    22B Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/10/13
    Posts: 1228

    Clarifying my previous post
    http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/B...html#Post163162
    I'm not sure if dual enrollment would be the right term for what we'd be looking for. By the time our son finishes calculus he'll have enough high school math credits (even though he wouldn't be in high school yet).

    So he'd be needing university maths courses to keep moving in maths (while doing needed high school courses in other subjects), but he'd only need university credit (not high school credit) for maths.

    So it would really be a case of taking some university courses totally independently of the K-12 school. I know there are other options like AoPS for some courses, but university is the logical choice for courses that will have to be taken eventually anyway.

    Anyone have experience with this?

    Also CFK, what does it entail to "graduate" from homeschool?

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    #163171 - 07/28/13 04:14 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    intparent Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/16/09
    Posts: 553
    Don't recall where you live, but I think it is not Minnesota. Here there is a program called "UMTYMP" (pronounced "um-tee-ump") that the most gifted math students in the state often enroll in.

    http://mathcep.umn.edu/umtymp/

    Obviously just specific to our state... but I suppose a few other states may have something similar. I am sure the posters out here would know!

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    #163178 - 07/28/13 06:40 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: intparent]
    22B Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/10/13
    Posts: 1228
    Originally Posted By: intparent
    Don't recall where you live, but I think it is not Minnesota. Here there is a program called "UMTYMP" (pronounced "um-tee-ump") that the most gifted math students in the state often enroll in.

    http://mathcep.umn.edu/umtymp/

    Obviously just specific to our state... but I suppose a few other states may have something similar. I am sure the posters out here would know!


    Well that looks pretty good. We don't have anything like that.

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    #163180 - 07/28/13 07:47 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Mana Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/17/12
    Posts: 882
    Caltech:

    Applications for transfer admission will be considered from students who have completed their secondary school education and have enrolled at a college or university and earned credit for courses. Students concurrently enrolled in a secondary school and a college or university should apply for freshman admission

    http://admissions.caltech.edu/applying/transfer

    MIT:

    I have been attending college during high school. Should I apply as a transfer?
    The transfer process is intended for students who have finished high school and completed at least one year of college. If you are still in high school, you are considered a freshman applicant regardless of how many classes you may have taken at the university level.

    http://mitadmissions.org/apply/transfer/faqs

    Harvard:

    Students who have completed one full-time year of college in a regular degree program in lieu of their senior year of high school (under an early admission plan) should contact the Admissions Office before submitting an application, but generally, if the courses were taken for credit toward a high school diploma, candidates should apply as a freshman.

    http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/transfer/eligibility.html

    Yale:

    If you are currently jointly enrolled in high school and college, you are not eligible for the transfer program, but should apply through the freshman admissions process.

    http://admissions.yale.edu/transfer

    Stanford:

    Students who are dual-enrolled in both high school and college programs should apply for freshman admission.

    http://www.stanford.edu/dept/uga/application/transfer/credit.html



    Edited by Mana (09/21/13 12:49 PM)
    Edit Reason: Spelling

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    #163185 - 07/29/13 06:09 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2595
    Loc: MA
    Parents, including me, have complained about the $60K/year cost of many schools. Even in a mediocre economy, the elite schools are competing on the basis of amenities rather than trying to economize:

    http://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=63166
    How Students Eat Now
    By Theresa Johnston
    Stanford Magazine
    July/August 2013

    Quote:
    More important than any of these, though, has been a change of mindset. Stanford Dining views itself not as a glorified cafeteria service, but as a key player in supporting the University's academic mission. Its programs aim to teach students how to cook and eat for life. "We calculate that the 4,000 undergraduates on our meal plans each year will consume more than 200 million meals over their lifetimes," says Eric Montell, Stanford Dining's executive director. They figure, too, that habits formed on campus will ripple out in ways that transform individual lives and wider communities.

    In many cases, he adds, it is students themselves who drive these changes. "They are much more interested in food today than their parents were. They think about where food comes from, and about the social justice aspects of food production. They think about environmental sustainability, and healthier eating, certainly. They come from all over the globe. And they watch the Food Network."

    Lunchtime at the Arrillaga Family Dining Commons: The first-floor kitchen is fronted by a glass wall that allows students to watch while meals are prepared. Upstairs, there's an expansive salad bar topped with white ceramic bowls of organic oranges. On the back wall, a pizza oven blazes. Whole chickens, rubbed with pungent fresh oregano, twirl slowly on the rotisserie. White-jacketed executive chef David Iott, who worked at Ritz-Carlton hotels before landing at Stanford nine years ago, began his day by clipping herbs in the dining hall's organic garden.

    There are no plastic cafeteria trays, except upon request. Instead, diners stroll around holding china plates, as they would at a hotel buffet. Hormone-free skim milk, fair-trade Starbucks coffee and Crysalli Artisan Water are on tap. A Pepsi machine is tucked away in a corner. "We have to have that," Iott says, a bit sadly. Then he brightens as he points out roasted organic carrots and an array of miniature decorated cheesecakes.

    Stanford alumni who remember mystery meat, gloppy gravy and hashers with hairnets may find this surreal. But high-quality food service provides a competitive advantage to colleges these days. From New Haven to Berkeley, American universities are pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into environmentally sustainable residences and dining facilities. "You cannot be one of the premiere universities in the country," Montell says, "and not have the dining program be on a par with that."


    _________________________
    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell

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    #163186 - 07/29/13 06:12 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: Bostonian]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    Originally Posted By: Bostonian
    Parents, including me, have complained about the $60K/year cost of many schools. Even in a mediocre economy, the elite schools are competing on the basis of amenities rather than trying to economize:


    You are buying a patent of nobility.

    Nobles always eat well, that's part of the package.


    Edited by JonLaw (07/29/13 06:13 AM)

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    #163248 - 07/30/13 12:21 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    22B Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/10/13
    Posts: 1228
    Thanks everyone. This is helping me brainstorm. Some more questions.

    If your student is home schooling or in a virtual school, what do you do about science labs (e.g. for physics, chemistry, biology)? Do colleges have concerns about the lack of lab experience?

    Generally (for any type of school, but also more particularly for a school without little or no lab facilities) is it better to take an AP course, or to take the corresponding freshman college course in a university (while the student is in high school)? Under what circumstances is one or the other better? In particular what do "elite" universities think of either option taken at an "average" high school or college? How about doing the freshman college course and then taking the corresponding AP exam as well?

    The context of these questions is the idea of a student accumulation a lot of AP and/or college credit before graduating high school, and then hopefully having two options; either getting a BSc in 2-3 years at the local uni, or getting into a more elite uni albeit without necessarily getting full credit for past coursework hence needing 4 years.

    ETA: local uni = state flagship (but not a really good one. Median SAT scores would be in 550-600 range.)


    Edited by 22B (07/30/13 10:29 AM)

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    #163255 - 07/30/13 05:33 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2595
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: 22B

    Generally (for any type of school, but also more particularly for a school without little or no lab facilities) is it better to take an AP course, or to take the corresponding freshman college course in a university (while the student is in high school)?

    The average SAT scores at our local high school are comparable to those of the state flagship, so the SAT scores of the students in AP classes (who are better-than-average high school students) would be higher than those at a community college or a nearby state university (which is less selective than the flagship). In addition, AP courses at the high school are easier logistically. So AP classes may be better than equivalent college classes for us.

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