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    #245338 - 04/26/19 07:59 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: indigo]
    Bostonian Online   content
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2589
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: indigo
    Relying on my memory because I cannot find the study at the moment... a few years ago some research indicated that students who applied to Ivies as their "reach" schools fared better overall in the admissions game than those who did not.

    Maybe the study On the Payoff to Attending an Elite College by Dale and Krueger, which found that "the average SAT score of the schools students applied to but did not attend is a much stronger predictor of students' subsequent income than the average SAT score of the school students actually attended."

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    #245344 - 04/26/19 04:30 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1464
    To me, that study reflect Terman study and also the long term study of Hunter students. You get 60 kids that get into Hunter elementary, then another 200 get in by 7th grade. The long term results showed that the kids that got in 7th grade had better success outcomes, like outstanding kind of outcomes. Like Terman kids, they were all very bright and did well, but the kids he rejected were the ones that got the Nobel prizes, kind of thing. But you are talking about equal IQs. So in the case where SAT scores being equal, but a kid gets rejected by Yale, it might be the kick in his pants to get his drive in gear and prove he is just as good. While kids that generally get into th elites, get the kick earlier and have the drive to create options for themselves, or take advantage of opportunities. The kids that got into Hunter elementary were high IQ but sort of had an entitlement attitude and didn't have drive. I met the woman who did the study, she actually had gone to Hunter and was rather surprised by the results.

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    #245355 - 04/28/19 04:12 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    madeinuk Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/13
    Posts: 1439
    Loc: NJ
    For those who didn't see this last year in the Economist - which is hardly a neo-con rag:-

    Article here
    _________________________
    Become what you are

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    #245357 - 04/29/19 05:27 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1464
    I also read the College Confidential on Harvard to see who gets accepted, rejected or deferred. And the biggest losers of this lawsuit are african american first time college family. Those are the ones that have the lowest scores, from what I read. Generally, from what I read, and anecdotally, whites do not necessarily get in without having competitive scores. I have heard alumni kids getting rejected despite millions of donations from the parents. The real lower scores are from minorities. Which is going to be interesting because if the judge rules that they picked AA with lower scores despite having asian applicants with higher scores, what does the judge do. Can they say less whites but let in AA with lower scores?

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    #245373 - 05/01/19 03:10 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1464
    ivy league admissions, a consulting firm, wrote this:
    s will provide. No sneaky unethical advisor has the answers and no “expert” offering a “shortcut” will make it less hard. Why? Because those students getting into the most competitive schools with single digit acceptance rates have almost perfect GPAs, top standardized test scores, academic awards, and have taken the most rigorous courses throughout high school and then more on their own. They have initiative, a love of learning, and often ask themselves, “what can I give” not “what can I get?” These top students are bridge builders in their communities and look outside their high school to take action in their areas of interest.

    Even recruited athletes, typically 15-18% of the accepted classes at elite schools, have had to demonstrate discipline and sacrifice, dedicating their time and focus to become top athletes in their sports, vs the student who is just a good player. Underrepresented minorities or first- generation students who have academic excellence and a drive to succeed demonstrated by how they’ve spent their four years in high school are also those who are offered spots at top colleges. But both athletic recruits and underrepresented students must also have an academic profile that is acceptable to admissions officers and now this will be even more tightly scrutinized.

    We find, after working in admissions for almost two decades, that our students who get into top colleges take our advice and then take action. Those students looking for an easy way through high school and then complain that admissions isn’t fair aren’t looking at what it takes. Is it fair that only a few juniors are chosen for elite summer programs such as the Research Science Institute at MIT? Sure, because the program is rigorous and expects a certain caliber scientist to join them and take advantage of the incredible research resources offered by the program. Rather than complain about injustice, our students get busy taking action on their interests and become scholars.

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    #245700 - 06/18/19 03:44 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Bostonian Online   content
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2589
    Loc: MA
    A Way for High-School Students to Boost Their GPAs: Take Classes at Other High Schools
    Alternative schools appeal to students who want to fix a poor grade at school or polish their transcripts with AP or Honors courses
    By Jennifer Levitz and Melissa Korn
    Wall Street Journal
    June 18, 2019 5:30 a.m. ET

    The pitch to high-school students and their parents is simple: Take that tough class at an online or alternative school, while remaining enrolled full-time elsewhere, and boost your grade-point average.

    Such schools are finding a lucrative niche, appealing to students who want to fix a poor grade at school or polish their transcripts with Advanced Placement or Honors courses. Regular schools often give full credit for the outside work and include it when calculating GPAs.

    The catch is that alternative schools that mainly offer one-on-one instruction or online classes—over the summer and during the school year—aren’t always as rigorous as a regular school classroom, and some give undeserving students inflated grades, say some educators, school administrators and former regulators.

    “You’re getting the same credit and the same honors on your transcript as someone at a traditional school, but I don’t think the rigor is sometimes there,” said Michael McCoy, a former school superintendent who served from 2011 to 2017 as a commissioner for the Western Association of Schools and Colleges, the region’s accrediting agency.

    Alternative schools were a strategy recommended by William “Rick” Singer, who ran the nationwide college-admissions cheating scheme. Mr. Singer has pleaded guilty to four charges in connection to the case, including racketeering conspiracy and fraud. He encouraged clients to use the schools to bolster their children’s academic transcripts. In some instances, he told parents one of his employees could take online classes in place of the child, according to a government affidavit filed in the case.

    *********************************************************

    There are, of course, legitimate online classes. Grade inflation, in both high school and college, is a general problem, and I have long thought that transcripts should show the average grade earned in the class in addition to the grade earned by the student. A growing number of colleges do not require the SAT or ACT for admission, but standardized (honest!) test scores are a useful complement to GPAs, which are subject to the vagaries of teachers and schools.

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    #245701 - 06/18/19 05:38 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: Bostonian]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4141
    Originally Posted By: Bostonian
    I have long thought that transcripts should show the average grade earned in the class in addition to the grade earned by the student.
    Interesting idea!

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    #245702 - 06/18/19 05:57 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: indigo]
    cricket3 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/09
    Posts: 633
    Originally Posted By: indigo
    Originally Posted By: Bostonian
    I have long thought that transcripts should show the average grade earned in the class in addition to the grade earned by the student.
    Interesting idea!


    This is exactly how grades are reported at my DDs college. It is interesting and meaningful to DD.

    Also interesting, the kids have to fill out course evaluations before they can access their grades. They are specific to the course and ask detailed questions, mainly about the teaching and student experience (ie, not generally about the material but how it was taught, presented, tested/evaluated, communicated, etc).

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    #245703 - 06/18/19 08:25 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: cricket3]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4141
    Originally Posted By: cricket3
    ...kids have to fill out course evaluations before they can access their grades. They are specific to the course and ask detailed questions, mainly about the teaching and student experience (ie, not generally about the material but how it was taught, presented, tested/evaluated, communicated, etc).
    Hopefully this is double-blind, with both the comments by students and the grades assigned by teachers held "in escrow" so that comments are not affected by grades and grades are not affected by comments.

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    #245705 - 06/18/19 09:01 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: indigo]
    cricket3 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/09
    Posts: 633
    Yes, of course.

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