Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment High WISC lower WIAT...underachiever???

Hi.

My child just finished K, is 6.5. He is in process of being assessed.

I don't have a report yet. Child finished WISC and WIAT. WISC was FSIQ 156. GAI 170. VCI/PRI were 99.9 and 99.8. Working memory was superlative at 98%. Processing was at 48%.

Achievement was different. She didn't have all tallied but said second grade level...should have been fifth if matching IQ. Said behavior was much different. Diverted, tried to get out of writing, anxious, etc. said several times, I haven't been taught this yet.

Tester feels strongly it is a LD. Saw letters reversed, poor spelling. Writing took forever. Simple sentences. Will do phonics assessment next.

In K..child was in top reading. Top maths. Received a 3 (1-4 scale) for writing. Teacher said letter/number reversal age appropriate. She has challenged the details in child's writing as a big discrepancy to his illustrations and verbal.

He loves Legos, drawing, researching interests, and being read too. He reads two grades ahead but does not enjoy reading out loud. He has never liked to do academics at home...ever! So he has never been taught above grade level, in basic math/phonics. For example time and money hasn't been covered at school or at home. I have tried and he resists.

So, we will explore LD and I'm reading up on everything. But, I am interested in other's experience...can the discrepancy be lack of exposure and perfectionism? How likely is that? I see there is a 2e board and will read / post there. Wanted general input...

Thank you.

It certainly CAN be lack of exposure and perfectionism - but where does the perfectionism come from? Often from the child perceiving the gap between what they "should" be able to do and what they can achieve. Sometimes kids have overinflated ideas of what they "should" be able to do, and their perfectionism is based on unrealistic ideas - sometimes the gap is due to the fact that they really are that smart but can't focus, or can't control their hands etc.

The combination of much lower processing speed and the big achievement gap and the difference in behaviour certainly suggests it's worth fully exploring.

Also keep in mind that it is VERY difficult when reversals, etc ARE age appropriate (for a normally developing child) to figure out whether this is an area of relative weakness that will be quickly overcome or whether it's a sign of something significantly out of step with a very gifted child's development and needs to be heeded as not "are appropriate" for that child.

Yes lots of kids struggle with handwriting and with reversals - but should a kid with a FSIQ that is nearly 4SD from the mean struggle with them more than fleetingly (especially reversals)?

There's your answer right there.

I recommend looking for information on stealth dyslexia and see if it sounds like your kid. The basic idea is that dyslexia looks different in gifted people. You can read more about it at www.dyslexicadvantage.com

It not quite as straight forward as that, my children get little to no academics at home either, and don't have the personality / inclination to pursue academic learning for entertainment. But even with how incredibly average I think her classroom placement is, and that she was not much ahead when she started school, and she has ADHD - my almost 7 yr old DYS iq DD is still ripping through academic learning at a pace normal kids don't/can't do. Including moving on very quickly from reversals and learning to compensate for handwriting disability that her OT had thought would be insurmountable. A child that gifted should be rocketing along - unless there is a reason why not (which may not be an LD, but its certainly worth figuring out why they're not).

Your ds sounds very similar to my ds at the same age - my ds is dysgraphic due to fine motor challenges associated with developmental coordination disorder.m

I was shocked when I saw his first set of neuro-psych achievement tests (he was given the WJ-III) - I had expected much higher numbers. Instead he had a huge range of scatter with some very high and some very very low. When you just looked at a nom-ordered list, or looked at the lists ordered by subject, the scatter didn't make any sense. However, when Ilooked at the subtests in groups, divided up by type of response required (handwritten vs oral) and timed vs untimed, patterns jumped out - he was up where he should be bad on IQ when he was able to answer orally and wasn't timed; untimed but handwritten tests were consistent but significantly lower, times tests with handwritten response were really really low -which made it *look* like he hadn't achieved what he was capable of.... But really what e scores reflected was his inability to write. As quickly and fluently as his same age peers.

You may find out its nothing, but I think it's a good idea to move forward with an LD assessment.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thank you. I read about stealth dyslexia and it somewhat fits (my father says he is dyslexic) but again the age can factor in as well. Comprehension is very strong for him. He decodes some words no problem...seems vowel combos and multi-syllable words trip him up. He did very well in K.

My child was a preemie, and his fine motor, especially writing has been below average until preschool where the intense practice made it better. Wish he could articulate what's going on and make this easier! Ha!

Reversing letters can be "normal" until around second grade. He's still very young. He may simply need more experience and exposure to the things the WIAT tested. He's obviously very bright, so he has the goods!

We are sorting out some overlapping issues with my DS8. He also had a giant gap between processing speed and other WISC scores. Inspired by common sense, Polarbear, and others here, we investigated further, given that the WISC processing speed tests involve so many types of skills and we wanted to figure out where the problem mapped. Visual processing tests revealed very STRONG visual processing in general and very, very slow writing. Quality of writing was pretty reasonable, actually, but speed was way behind. For us, this visual processing testing has felt very helpful because it is focusing us on where he needs help--ie., very specifically with writing. Also, I previously didn't really buy that he had fine motor issues because he plays the violin and knits. But writing is apparently a very specific type of task. So now we're pursuing OT, which I am finally convinced is likely a fruitful path.

Related--though I am still learning about this, so don't know much yet--he apparently has retained some "primitive reflexes," which might be contributing. When the tester moved one part of his body, others moved too. I asked the visual processing assessor (a visual therapist) how that might affect writing and he pointed out that when my son moves his head (to look at a piece of paper he was writing on, for instance), his hand wants to open--so his brain has to do a lot of extra work while writing.

Good luck with the explorations!

Some questions...

1- Is the testing being done through the school? If not, has the tester spoken to the teachers to get their take on your child and to see work samples? Diagnosing an LD is much more than just looking for score patterns, it's understanding the whole child and the context in which the instruction and learning is taking place.

2- Did the tester do the IQ *and* achievement testing back to back on the same day? If there wasn't a significant break (ex- 1 hour lunch and "recess" break) in between, it's possible the lower achievement scores are more a reflection of your child's fatigue than anything else.

It's important to remember that per guidelines set out in IDEA (the federal law that governs special education), an LD cannot be diagnosed if appropriate instruction hasn't occured. Phonics instruction usually happens between K-2nd grades. Even with a gifted child, it's not appropriate to diagnose an LD at the end of Kindergarten if the child is actually reading and comprehending but having difficulty with phonics skills that haven't actually been taught yet.

Good luck with getting to the bottom of all this.

A.