Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 216 guests, and 18 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Word_Nerd93, jenjunpr, calicocat, Heidi_Hunter, Dilore
    11,421 Registered Users
    April
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4 5 6
    7 8 9 10 11 12 13
    14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    21 22 23 24 25 26 27
    28 29 30
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 2,639
    B
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 2,639
    This article is not primarily about gifted students (but note the sentence citing acceleration as a cause of the problem). I wonder how someone can fail a final exam and pass a course. If anything, the weighting should be reversed -- if a student is noncompliant and fails to turn in homework but aces the final exam, he should still pass (and arguably get an A) because he learned the material. Students who flunk an Algebra I final exam in June likely know even less algebra in September and are probably not ready for a real Algebra II course.

    Political pressure to require Algebra II for high school graduation while maintaining high graduation rates may lead to passing students who have not learned the material.

    http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...am-montgomery-blair-high-school-students
    Montgomery considers multiple factors in math exam failure rates
    By Donna St. George and Lynh Bui
    Washington Post
    May 19, 2013

    Quote
    Both students are part of what has become a startling phenomenon in Montgomery County’s high schools: High rates of failing and near-failing grades on math final exams.

    In a suburban county far more accustomed to the glow of success and national accolades for school performance, parents and elected leaders are demanding answers: Why did 62 percent of high school students flunk their geometry finals in January? Why did 57 percent bomb their Algebra 2 exams? Why did 48 percent falter on the final test in precalculus?

    Those questions intensified late Friday, when school officials released detailed data showing the high failure rates were consistent across five school years and that some Montgomery high schools had particularly poor results. The math exams are countywide and uniform across all schools.

    “I’m just amazed this hasn’t blown up a long time ago,” said Mel Riddile of the National Association of Secondary School Principals, where Montgomery’s latest exam results have left many wondering whether similar problems are hiding in other districts.

    School leaders, experts and teachers offer several possible explanations for the poor exam performance, which dates back more than a decade in algebra, according to school system reports and board minutes.

    They say it could be that the longtime push in Montgomery to accelerate students in math has moved too many students too quickly and left them with an understanding of the subject that isn’t deep enough.

    It could be that the day-to-day classroom instruction is not preparing students for what awaits at semester’s end.

    Or it could be — for some, like Sergio — a choice: Many students make their own calculations about whether revving up for the big test makes sense, given the grades that precede it can render the test moot.

    Montgomery students said they often refer to a chart, posted on an archived county PTA Web site, that details 125 grade scenarios, only four of which would lead to failing a course because of failing the final exam. Schools officials confirmed the chart’s accuracy.

    For example, with C’s in each of a semester’s two quarters, an E on the final exam would still result in a C for the course. A student with two B’s going into the final exam needs only a D or better on the test to maintain a B for the course, according to the chart. The exam, worth 25 percent of a course grade, holds sway but can be greatly outmatched by daily classroom performance over time.

    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 90
    G
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    G
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 90
    This is where a grade system really fails. If you are seeking mastery, then every student should have to display mastery before going on to the next level course. When the focus is on a grade, kids of every level learn how to game the system and do just enough to get by.

    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 647
    K
    Kai Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    K
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 647
    Actually, having the final be worth 25% of the grade is higher than I've seen for high school courses. Frequently it's 10-15%. But the people in the article who are surprised by this must not have calculated weighted grades very much, as it is no surprise to me something worth 25% of the grade isn't going to move the grade a huge whole lot.

    For their example of a student with a B (85%) who gets a D on the exam (65%) will get a B- (80%) as a final grade:

    85 x 0.75 = 63.75

    65 x 0.25 = 16.25

    63.75 + 16.25 = 80

    But conversely, if the same student with the B were to get 100% on the exam, he or she would still only get a B+ (88.75%).

    (Frankly, most teachers I've dealt with don't understand the implications of weighting grades or even how to do it properly. I'd say that Sergio in the article is ahead of the game there.)

    The question isn't really about how much the final exam is weighted. It's about what is going on in the class to produce students who are getting a B over the course of the marking period and then doing much more poorly on the final. You want whatever grading system you use to reflect demonstrated achievement, so the final grade in the class shouldn't be that different from the average of what the student got on the exams.

    Case in point--When my son was in 10th grade, I noticed that if I averaged his math test scores, he had a C, but he was actually getting an A in the class. Here's why. First the homework was graded for "completion" meaning that if there was something written on the paper, it was entered at 100%. Then the tests were given over two days. The first day they took the test and the second day they corrected their mistakes. Sometimes they even took the tests home to correct the mistakes. Anyway, if a kid did the corrections correctly he could get half the points back (for example, if he originally got an 80, and he got all the corrections right, he would end up with a 90). Finally, the teacher would give out extra credit work that the students could complete at home, which tended to really bump up the grade.

    I've heard of schemes where the homework piece only helps a student's grade, but I haven't personally seen a course where it is formally in place. So a kid who aces the exams but does no homework would get a grade that is based on test scores only.

    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 5,181
    Kai is right.

    Quote
    (Frankly, most teachers I've dealt with don't understand the implications of weighting grades or even how to do it properly. I'd say that Sergio in the article is ahead of the game there.)

    The question isn't really about how much the final exam is weighted. It's about what is going on in the class to produce students who are getting a B over the course of the marking period and then doing much more poorly on the final. You want whatever grading system you use to reflect demonstrated achievement, so the final grade in the class shouldn't be that different from the average of what the student got on the exams.


    FWIW, though--

    Quote
    Actually, having the final be worth 25% of the grade is higher than I've seen for high school courses.

    My DD has had some courses that have been weighted more heavily than even that on a final examination or some cumulative project.

    It's also not that uncommon in post-secondary settings to find faculty who will offer students either a semester-long, all-graded assessment grade... OR... the grade that they earn on a cumulative (often brutally thorough) final examination.

    Very few students do BETTER on a final like that, in my own experience-- but my DD is frequently one of them. If she'd had that kind of deal in place, she'd have straight A+'s in her math classes, and she does not.

    As for acceleration causing this, that is just poppycock. INAPPROPRIATE placement certainly causes it, particularly when coupled with its sidekick, poor instruction. That's quite a dynamic duo for students to work around.



    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 761
    M
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 761
    Growing up overseas, homework was NEVER part of our grade. Homework was mandatory and if you didn't do your thing, you stayed afterschool to do it. But it was never counted in the grade. We were graded on actual knowledge. We were told what to study for the next class and could had been called out int front of the class and quizzed on the material without any prior warning. Same with written tests. We only knew ahead of time about big tests but there were always unannounced quizzes. So we had to study for every class every time. Actually STUDY. And no multiple choice tests. All were tests with one answer questions we all had to know. Every missed answer would lower our grade (no percentage scale like in the US). Then I turned 16, came in the States as an exchange students and just about fell over when I saw the way things were done here. It took me less than a week to realize that all I had to do was to turn in my homework and do a decent job on the tests and I would get enough points to get an A in every class. All with minimal knowledge of English. by the end of the school year I was fluent in English and had A+ in every class. So, yes, there's definitely something wrong with the system here. I was fortunate enough to always have good self discipline and would get every extra credit available, etc. Then there's the opposite, kids like my now 20 year old stepson, who are really smart, know a lot but can't keep track of their assignments, lose their homework and in the end are failing classes because of it. Every single semester in high school was a wild chase in the end where all depended on him getting an A or possibly a B on his finals so he could squeak by with a D and that was after couple failed classes his Freshman year. He was a kid with huge problems with written output, unrecognized by the school (their term was he was "lazy") and back then I didn't know how the system works. frown

    It's all about quantity but very little about actual retained knowledge.

    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 2,513
    Ooh MoN, good info, though that's nefarious stuff going on.


    What is to give light must endure burning.

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by blackcat - 04/17/24 08:15 AM
    Jo Boaler and Gifted Students
    by thx1138 - 04/12/24 02:37 PM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 04/08/24 12:40 PM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5