Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment High? MAP Test Scores - What to do? Help!

We just had a discussion with our son's gifted specialist at his school (at year's end). Our son is 9, almost 10, and finishing 4th grade at our local public school. His MAP test scores were 240 in reading and 255 in math in the spring (99th percentile for both). I'm having trouble interpreting those scores a bit and knowing what they mean in terms of grade-level ability. He's headed to a new school (a 5/6 upper elementary) in the fall, and I'm wondering how to advocate for him. In all honesty, we've sort of let him move through elementary school with the resources provided - some pull-out enrichment with two very talented gifted specialists. He was pushed up to high reading group in first grade when he was still in kindergarten, but it did seem that some of the other kids caught up enough to at least have some peers in reading by the end of second grade. I'm not sure he's ever really had peers at his school in math. We've always known he was bright and when he was 3-4 yrs old, I had the "just what are we dealing with" moment, but I've sort of pushed it aside for the past 5 yrs. The gifted specialist really brought us back to reality - saying she wasn't sure that he would be adequately challenged (or that he even could be) at the next school. I don't think there's any way we can pull him out of the system - he loves school (mostly - except for our state standardized tests and the prep involved), and he has good friends, and is looking forward to playing an instrument next year and soccer, etc.
Any suggestions on 1) what the MAP testing really means and 2) general suggestions on navigating the transition to 5th grade would be appreciated

5th grade is our problem too. ds just finished 4th. He was subject accelerated 2 years in math and in reading since 1st grade. The school only goes to 5th so this year in 4th was lacking a bit. We supplement with a tutor from the high school and went through the AoPS pre algebra book. We also did some Saturday classes at the local universities (more for fun) and got his feet wet with some math competitions.

The school says basically they have nothing to offer outside the scope of their high ability cluster group. There enrichment this year was an extra math sheet once a week for math. He did go through both Caesar's English books. He blew through the regular stuff with a grimace on his face. He usually got the extra done in class too.

Maps testing charts growth over the year and from year to year.

5th grade we have opted for a private school for gifted.
It seems to be the perfect option. Price excluded.

I would see if they could at least put him into 6th grade classes instead of 5th, either some or a total skip, since the school has both, if it were me. Of course, my DS10 does not have any athletic bent to him, so we don't have to worry about what grade-skipping does for sports issues.

I went looking for the chart that someone posted here a while back, but I can't seem to find it. Off the top of my head, a 255 spring math score is 99th percentile up to about 10th grade, I think.

My DS10 at 261 is going into either an 8th grade advanced math class in the fall, or if they don't have one, we're looking at 9th or an online class that has 9th. It's tough to decide if he should be in a class with high schoolers or not, so we'll have to play it by ear.

So your guy almost certainly (and it sounds like it from your gifted specialist's point of view) would do well to advance some in math. We don't worry so much about reading being advanced because the focus needs to be on math for DS10. We work around that for everything else. We are lucky that our school district's various pieces are all on the same campus here, K-12. If yours is spread apart, it becomes more difficult to get those advanced pieces at this age -- you may want to look at online classes, which some schools pay for and work with.

Thanks for the comments - we'll definitely look into getting him into a 6th grade math class - It is a strange structure - they try to keep 5th grade more like elementary school - a team of 2 teachers for all subjects for 2 classrooms worth of kids - which does allow for some ability grouping, but then they do the more traditional middle school switching by subject for 6th. We will schedule a talk with the principal/guidance counselor later this summer. When we toured the school, there was mention of qualified 6th grade students being allowed to take a compressed 7th grade math and Algebra 1 so they could start Geometry or Algebra 2 as 7th graders at the middle school. I will see if it is an option for 5th graders - or if he could take a test to place into it at the beginning of the year - I worry that it will make scheduling a nightmare though.
There is a gifted private school in town - I have a few acquaintances whose kids attend. One of the kids who also attended preschool with my son is there - and this other kid was also reading well in pre-K, had good fine motor control, better social skills (was also 10 months older), but from what I saw didn't have the crazy math thing. We actually had my son tested at age 4.5 and applied to the gifted school - submitting the test scores and a portfolio of his hand drawn calendars and self made math problems too - but he wasn't admitted. It still irritates me a bit - he was reading at a high first grade level at the time, and who knows where the math was - he was finding prime numbers. The problem (I think) was a bad site visit (we had to let him attend for a day) - he cried the whole time. He could barely hold a pencil and didn't really like talking to other children - so they told us he wasn't ready for kindergarten. (He has a summer birthday, and many people asked us / suggested we hold him back a year! I couldn't think of anything more tormenting than another year of preschool.) So . . .I'm hesitant to investigate the gifted school again - fairly or not.
I don't know whether it's worthwhile getting him another IQ test or not - I don't see how it would change anything. I'm most worried about the next 4 years - grades 5-8 and making sure he is appropriately challenged academically. We have a good high school, with lots of advanced course offerings, and the local community college offers dual enrollment courses, on the HS campus for many subjects or at the CC itself if he is done with the math (2nd yr calculus, I think) by 10th grade.

It's pretty late in the year to try for a whole grade skip, but like the others I'd seriously consider it. Your situation sounds very similar to ours: dd14 has a late summer/early fall bd, barely made it by the K cut-off and we were told to hold her out a year due to intensity and sensitivity and age, and we have a pretty good high school that we've choiced her to with dual enrollment and a lot of other acceleration options. Middle school and elementary were also our problems.

We did start dd on time (shortly before she turned five for K) and she skipped 5th after we were told essentially the same thing you were: they were going to have a very hard time meeting her needs with a skip and an even harder time without it. She's headed into her junior year of high school now and it really was a good choice both socially and academically. She was still in the 99th percentile in most areas immediately post skip and remains there still.

Is it too late in the year to request that they consider placing him as a 6th grader next year?

I don't have the commonly used chart at my finger tips right now either, but 255 definitely isn't the 99th percentile beyond 4th or 5th grade for spring math. I was pretty sure on that b/c I've seen that exact score before for one or both of my dds (one of them in about 6th grade) and they aren't that advanced at math.

The quickest 2011 norms chart that I could find online for MAPS RIT scores is here: http://www.sheboygan.k12.wi.us/intech/plc/documents/NWEA_2011_RIT_PercentileRank.pdf and it lists 255 for spring math as the following:

99th for 4th grade, 98th for 5th grade, 96th for 6th grade, 92nd for 7th grade, 88th for 8th grade, 85th for 9th grade, 83rd for 10th grade, and 79th for 11th grade. FWIW, that is still a score that would warrant some significant acceleration IMHO.

We haven't considered a grade skip - It took my son a long time to make friends, and he now has, and I don't want to disrupt that aspect of things - as it is very important to him. He would also miss out on music if he were skipped, because of the way it is set up, and I think would make it difficult for him to play in the band & orchestra. It's a much larger school (lots of K-4 schools going into one 5/6) and I'm hopeful there might be a few other kids with similar needs.

One related question that I still haven't resolved, but probably was at play during elementary school - we had a WPPSI test done when he was 4.5 at the end of preschool - he tested at the lower edge of the MG range (though I remember the psych saying he didn't complete part of the test and wasn't terribly cooperative), and so I've sort of been going on the assumption that, yes, he is bright . . .but . . .
I don't know - all these numbers are sort of meaningless until they're not. I know he's not like any of the other kids at his school - and all of his friends are smart, slightly weird kids. From an early age he has studied atlases and almanacs and textbooks. A few months ago he figured out "e" just using the calculator and the ln function button to as many decimal places as he could. He's exceptionally verbal, and reads well- though doesn't always understand/or just isn't interested in the social/emotional context of some of the books for older kids.

Well, those are very strong MAP scores, but I wouldn't necessarily panic, especially if you are in a good school district and there is some kind of GT or ability tracking. I think many parents make the mistake of looking at average (50%)scores and interpret that to mean little Susie belong several grades above. Personally, I find it helpful to look at the 97th percentile (or perhaps 95th if you want to be more inclusive) for acceleration purposes, assuming that you want your child to be comfortably at the top of the class.

A reading RIT of 240 is between 98th (237) and 99th (242) percentiles nationally for Spring 4th grade and exactly 97th percentile for Spring 5th grade. (These are 2011 norms since I can't access the 2012 charts without providing a credit card.) As such I think that a typical GT/honors curriculum that works a year above would be perfect. In general, as long as there is some ability tracking, he will probably not be too out of sync for reading/language arts in middle school.

As for math, he appears more ahead there. A math RIT of 255 is not only 99th for Spring 4th grade, but is 98th for Spring 5th grade and 96th for Spring 6th grade. With those numbers, he definintely should have access to 6th grade curriculum and possbily 7th grade (pre-algebra) in the fall. Again, a lot of it depends on your local situation. A typical GT or honors middle schoool curriculum will be one year ahead so he could have access to 6th grade curriculum in 5th grade in the fall. You need to speak to the administration at the middle school to get accurate information on what is actually available.

Again, opinions will vary so obviously take it with a grain of salt. My DS will be studying algebra in 5th grade next year; as a 4th grader, he scored between 97th and 99th percentile for eight graders on several different tests.