Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School So, just how accurate were those Pre-K tests?

If you read the book I think it goes into more detail about a low correlation between IQ scores in preschool and IQ scores later on. It's not just about academic success. I believe the book, as that has been my personal experience with one of my kids. Even if DS had been cooperating nicely on the test in preschool, I seriously doubt that his score would have been anywhere near what it was 2 years later. At 6, I can still see a lot of development in areas like speech/language so it wouldn't surprise me if his verbal IQ goes up in the future and the huge gap that currently exists starts to close. He has a 27 point gap between verbal and non-verbal, currently.

Here's another article http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/nyregion/25bigcity.html?_r=0

Here's a comment that someone wrote in response to an article--I found it interesting:

"*I administer some of these tests*

One thing research is showing us (and, anecdotally, I've seen in kids I've worked with) is that very young children who've had "many advantages" test high on the verbal portions of tests and on the crystallized intelligence parts (most closely related to general knowledge). On tests where these areas are give heavy weighting (or tests that look at these areas only) these children test as gifted. On tests that are made of other sup groupings (such as a performance scale, visual spatial skills, etc) the scores are more in line with *actual* ability (because no amount of enrichment can raise these skills much). So a child may have an over all GIA that looks to be in the superior range, but on close analysis the subtest scores suggest enhanced verbal ability pulling the GIA from average / above average into that superior range. At the moment we report these kids as "gifted in verbal ability" and expect to see them settle somewhere closer to the mean over time.

My personal working theory is if they can't muster a superior or very high average score in the tests that relate to inductive and deductive logic and fluid reasoning type tasks (that can't be substantially improved with teaching/enrichment) then the case for giftedness is questionable."

An IQ score is an indicator of academic success, as much research has shown -- it is just not a perfect one.

And there are academics and there is school...and in today's age there is a big difference in academic success and school success.

I have a son that really wants to be an writer but he probably will not have success on the school system's NCLB writing test (given 4th, 8th and 10th grades). Awesome potential as a writer, not very good chance at even passing answering a stupid prompt in 1 hour and meeting their criteria (although he can do every step of the task individually). Just the way it is.

He will take the 8th grade test this year. If he doesn't pass it, I don't think there is a problem (he gets nearly straight As and will do nearly perfect or perfect on the math, EOC Algebra test, and reading portion of the test and so they will just place him in 9th grade). And he can write well thought out paragraphs and essays with correct grammar, usage and mechanics. He just doesn't do well on the writing test.

If he can't pass 10th grade writing test (with the option to retake it several times) they won't let him graduate. He might end up homeschooling 11th and 12th grades.

My thought on the "they all even out by the third grade" is that if I put my EG/PG kid into the regular curriculum, and he wasn't challenged anymore, that yes, by third grade others would catch up.

But, I'm in the middle of it now, so I'm biased.

I am facing a bit of a problem. My DD used a well-known and respected school psychologist in the Chicagoland area who has been dropped by my child's school admissions department due to inconsistencies in her test results.
I don't fault the school at all for this. However, it puts our family in a bind concerning the future direction of her education.
I suppose having her re-tested is the next logical step, but I am wondering if anybody has ever been through this scenario. (Backstory: I started this thread btw because I felt as though this development was a possibility)

Huckleberry, I told you about my dd's experience in my original reply to this post - she had a high WPPSI, was retested and had significantly lower scores across the board on the WISC. The thing that was similar on both tests was that her subtest scores were very consistent (with the exception of two that were relatively low due to vision issues). I didn't mention it before, but will mention it now that the psych who tested her was also frequently used by parents wanting to get into our school district's gifted program, and was not considered to be a reliable psych for gifted testing (there were concerns among school district staff that scores from some psychs were inflated specifically to help kids get into the program, and those scores didn't hold up over the years, and the kids who came in to the program with scores from those psychs sometimes did not succeed and had to be asked to leave. We weren't at the psych for gifted testing - we'd pursued the psych appointment because our dd was having severe anxiety, and the high WPSSI scores at 5 were a surprise to us. The later scores held up much more in line with where we think is our dd's true ability level.

That said, our dd has been extremely successful in school. She's in an academically rigorous program, is an extremely conscientious student, gets straight As, and is very motivated to do well in school. She doesn't have DYS (or even highly gifted) ability scores, and I doubt she'll score as high on the SAT as a highly gifted student will - but she has a lot of options for advanced work in secondary school simply because she is an engaged and successful student and I suspect if she keeps doing well she'll have a great selection of college programs to choose from too. I am not convinced at all that if she had continued to score sky-high on ability tests that she'd be in any essentially different position academically. While she is not in need of the uber-acceleration and intellectual stimulation that her EG brother craves, she's still an incredibly successful, happy student. So I would be careful not to put a filter on what you think a child is capable of accomplishing simply based on whether or not they have a gifted IQ.

Best wishes,

polarbear

This isn't what I think the "even out by third grade" is intended to mean. I can also tell you, that having an EG child in the position of never having accelerated programming available in early elementary - other kids didn't "catch up and he never "evened out" - he was clearly ahead of his class in ability in kindergarten and still there in 3rd grade and on. The "even out" that took place was that kids who started reading early vs late etc - "evened out" as in fell into where their abilities were going to place them by 3rd grade - just because a student wasn't reading at 5, for instance, meant that they wouldn't be reading ahead of grade level once they were reading, and just because a child was reading at 4 didn't mean they were destined to be reading above grade level in 3rd. The "even out" as I've understood it from teachers simply refers to a wide range of *when* students learn to read - both based on when they are developmentally ready and in some cases exposure.

polarbear

Huckleberry - PM'd you...

Since this popped up and I have an answer, here's our experience... DD took the WPPSI shortly after 4.5 and her FSIQ score was 137. There was a lot of variation in a few of the subtests, which the tester couldn't explain; in hind sight, perhaps related to her ADHD or vision issues which were not well treated at the time. At the time the tester stated in the report that DD would likely test higher in the future.

She took the WISC-IV recently at 8. Her subtest scores were fairly even across the board and her FSIQ went up nearly 20 points. She's also taken the CogAT and WIAT-III within the same month, and the school psych gave her the RIAS last fall, and the results all suggest that her recent WISC scores are fair measures. Since the original test, she's also gotten medication and therapy for ADHD.

Oh, and FWIW, suffering through nearly 3 years of public school has not evened her achievement levels out with the rest of the class. Though I can see how this situation could, with a child with a different personality or more non-academic interests or better social awareness than DD.

Bump. We just did the WPPSI-IV for DS 3:5. Just curious if other folks who did early testing a few years ago have feedback about how it panned out.