Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Test scores and schools

What are some good ways to present WISC and WAIT scores to the school?

We haven't shared the scores with them yet (not sure why) but now that we are looking at other options, it seems that we should probably share the test scores with the public school and at least give them a chance to react. But, I don't want to just go in and say "here, read this".

I think you've mentioned that the school isn't interested in skipping DS because of TAKS. How did that conversation come up? Have you talked with the counselor?

We just discussed his current status and mentioned the scores but didn't really give them a copy. We told them we had had it done and thought they would ask, but they didn't. I have talked a couple of times to the counselor but she doesn't really know much. I've also tried to talk to the diagnostician but she only deals with kids who are below grade level or need special ed and flat told me she didn't have time to talk to me.

Oh, I did talk to the counselor about skipping but that was before we had the test results. She didn't have an opinion about it one way or another. She had to call someone else to find out the process for letting him take the test to skip. She's never given one.

I'm wondering if we should just go to the principal and say, "here is where he is, what can you do to help him?".

Before you do that you might want to have some of your own ideas, I think. Do you want to skip him to 3rd? The TAKS isn't until the end of the year, and if he needs a skip because of his achievement level maybe taking it a year earlier would be ok. Would you rather ask for subject acceleration? Are you looking for placement with a particular teacher? Is there anything that you can think of that would help him?

I guess whether you went straight to the principal with the scores would depend on what you know about the principal. Some principals are not that educated about scores and their meaning, and others are very well educated. My mom is a school counselor, so I guess I'm inclined to always start with the counselor. But I've already learned in my 1 year of experience in public school that not all counselors match my mom in experience, attitude, and wisdom. It's too bad!

I do think you need some sort of starting point for accomodation, though, instead of just leaving it up to them from the beginning. When I've read about advocacy successes on this forum it seems that the people have gone in with a list. By the way, what is the test that he would take to skip? Did they tell you?

I hope this helps a little, Squirt! You know I'm here for ya!

Squirt, I've been wondering the same thing. I mentioned the testing to the teacher when she brought up that she was putting together a portfolio for DS for recommendation to the gifted program. I also mentioned it to the gifted coordinator since he didn't score high enough on their creativity test for the gifted program. I haven't decide if I'll send in the scores until I find out if the program is worth it. FOr me, I think the achievement testing will be more telling about what he needs.

Hi, all, I'm just bumping this back up because I'd like to hear some more answers. I think my timing was bad because I posted just as Mark was changing things, oops! Thanks Dazey and Amy for your responses.

My point is how do I approach the school with his test scores to see how/if they will accommodate him. So far, they've not indicated any willingness to do so but maybe the test scores will sway them. I guess I'm just looking for tactful ways to do this. Also, how do you use the grade equivalents to figure out what to ask for with subject acceleration?

And, Amy, he'd take the Credit By Examination to skip 2nd grade, but the deadline for registering for that has already passed. In addition, my husband is adamantly opposed to him skipping 2nd in the public school.

Thanks, all.

Our school had the test scores--heck, they administered the tests!--and they did nothing for DS6 whatsoever. So I'm afraid I don't have an answer for you.

I'll be reading with interest...

I struggled with how to use DS' scores with the school, too. After it was apparent that differentiation wasn't going to work for DS, I talked to the principal about what could be done. I outlined my concerns for DS and suggested that gradeskipping could be an alternative for him. Later, I formally requested the gradeskip. When the principal hemmed and hawed and told me how "unusual" my request was, I gave her a copy of his scores and said, "I know, but this is an unusual situation."

Cathy, I am glad you had luck with your school. Sounds like you have a great principal.
My experience with handing in the girls' IQ tests was met with, we'll see how they do, originally.
Now the school believes, at least DD8 is an exceptional learner far ahead of most of her peers.
What really helped the school understand where she was, was achievement testing.
The school seemed to understand that better.
We used out of level achievement testing, the WIAT,
I like it because it does keep asking questions out of grade level, so the scores do help you understand what grade a child is comparable to. It's not perfect, but I like it better than an achievement test that just measures at the current grade level. Many school administrators don't understand IQ scores and what the mean, but they do understand achievement tests.

Cathy, what are you hopeful for?

You can take the Credit by Examination tests at anytime through Texas Tech University. You can also take single subject exams if you are interested in subject acceleration.

Sadly, most educators do not understand what IQ test scores mean. I've always felt that the best way to explain IQ scores to educators is to share your child's IQ along with the IQ comparison chart (http://vcbconsulting.com/gtworld/iqgrade.html).

Summer

Summer - I think this comparison chart relates only to the older IQ tests. Do you know if there's a more recent version that addresses the newer tests (e.g., SB-V)?

The chart is still valid because it is based upon the "defition of IQ" which has not changed. The difference is that the new tests have ceilings of around 160, so you essentially never see IQ test scores over 160 from the newer tests. Basically if the IQ score is over 145 the correlation on the chart could be considered a minimum.

How has the definition changed?

Squirt -
Do you think subject acceleration would meet your childs needs and satisfy DH?
Grinity

I don't know. Maybe it would work with a good homeroom teacher, if I could figure out how to get the school to do it. I mentioned it to the counselor and she said "no, we don't ever do that". The GT teacher said "but if we do that, then what would we teach him in 6th grade?". But, maybe with WIAT test scores? But, how do I use that as a tool?

Since I don't have any experience with this it is very hard to know what to ask them to do and what to expect. I guess this is just a last ditch effort on my part to get them to DO SOMETHING before I make a final decision to pull him.

He's almost 7 and doing 5th grade reading and 3rd-4th grade math (on ALEKS, he's on level 3.8).

This is an excerpt from the RatioIQvsDeviation IQ article:

Second, the �ratio IQ� may be more meaningful than a �deviation IQ� to families planning instruction. In selecting a textbook or a class it is more helpful to know that a seven-year-old is approximately four years beyond his or her age than to know that s/he is one in four hundred.

I agree! I look at those numbers such as 1/400 and think "but what does it mean IRL?" lol.

Dottie, what is STEP?

Ah I hadn't seen the diagnostic section of the JHU website. Is that what you meant by you can test any time? I was looking at the Talent Search and specific dates were listed.

So do I have this correct? You'd recommend WJIII to get feel for LOG but then the SCAT or STEP (is STEP your preference) to get handle on educational placement?

Dottie et al,

What do you think of MAPS testing? DD tests consistently 4 -5 grade levels up on them, but I wonder if that's simply because the standards are low? Any thoughts? (No GT denial, natch ?!

Dottie et al,

What do you think of MAPS testing? DD tests consistently 4 -5 grade levels up on them, but I wonder if that's simply because the standards are low? Any thoughts? (No GT denial, natch ?!

I'm not familiar with MAPS. I wish our school did anything like the STEP. Do you think it would be worth it to do it through JHU? It looks like it is $60 a test but you can get an individualized report for an extra $200. It looks like there are 5 tests and I'm assuming each would be $60? The individualized report would be nice but not at $200 per test. Maybe I'll call them and get more details. They do have a testing center near me but they don't offer any of their services in Texas (in fact, we can't even do the Talent Search).

Summer, I'll also have to check into the CBE through TT. I wonder if the school is required to accept the results at any time of the year. Hmmm.

Yes it is the one that increases in complexity which I like -- although I have seen some funny moments, like one GT little boy (7 yo) going very quickly through the levels until he ran into questions about Homeric Odes. I mean, he really cares about reptiles, Star Wars, Lego and WWII!

It's designed by NWEA.

Squirt,
I thought I'd take a stab at trying to answer your first question. Dottie and Grinity were invaluable sources of support and suggestions this past year as I attempted to navigate some of the same issues you mention.

First, can you get your foot in the door with the head of Special Education department (or whatever your district calls it)? It seemed to me that our principal really wasn't in the loop as far as understanding what the test scores meant. The Special Ed director seemed to get the scores and although still giving me party line, she did get some balls rolling.

Second, the school is probably going to want to do their own evaluations, these may not necessarily override your existing test results but help to placate the bureaucracy and the powers that be. If you can try to get them on a time table such as we will meet in 6 weeks to discuss the reuslts of the school's testing, things seem to get done.

Third, keep a written record of all conversations. I found it effective to talk by phone in more informal and relaxed fashion and then follow up the phone conversations with an email detailing my understanding of the conversation and requesting confirmation from the school.

Fourth, keep pushing in a friendly concerned parent fashion if they try to brush you off. If you can place more emphasis on your child's emotional state you will most likely get more faster from the school. Stomache aches, trouble sleeping, stress all get the school's attention faster than my child already knows what you are trying to teach. Don't lie, but don't be afraid to bring these up if they are occuring.

Fifth, don't accept a once a year evaluation at first. Make sure that you meet with them every 3-6 months to make sure that the program that they work out is working. We had an amazing change in attitude from our first meeting in November to our second in April. We still lost an entire academic year but we did get alot of positives for next year. It took the school that first 6 months to realize that we weren't just pushy parents. In fact, they are doing some things for next term that we were told in the Fall that they never do and aren't allowed to do.

We provided indepentent testing from the WISC IV, WJ-3 Ach, SCAT and a full neuropsych evaluation. We presented the results more as a this is what we know and we hope you find it useful approach. The school then did a short version of the WISC-IV and grudgingly put him in the pull-out. From there it seemed to be a matter of staying in close contact with the Special Ed Director and letting them start to draw their own conclusions.

I do think that the talent search test was very useful. We were trying to show the school that our son needed more in Math than he was getting.

If the school comes back saying he needs a skip of some kind, will your husband accept it better?

Good luck

Squirt, I haven't looked at the specific test you mentioned, but I have emailed CTY about the Talent Search. They told me that in Texas we can take their Talent Search tests and participate in CTY's online courses but we don't get the other benefits like the regional awards. For that we have to go through Duke's TIPS program because that's our region. I don't know if this is the same info that you have found but I thought I'd pass it along. And if I'm wrong, hopefully someone will correct me and explain! I've found this whole "region" thing a little confusing!