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    #158477 - 05/28/13 08:31 PM Re: Precalculus text for independent study? [Re: HowlerKarma]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Good point. She's actually rather eager to learn calculus.
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    #158563 - 05/29/13 12:27 PM Re: Precalculus text for independent study? [Re: Val]
    kcab Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/02/07
    Posts: 1603
    Loc: Sparta, apparently
    Originally Posted By: Val
    I read through the school's geometry and algebra 1 textbooks and was appalled at how they had stripped both subject down to the easiest of the easy A-section problems in the Brown series (A section: easy but with increasing difficulty, B: medium and ditto; C: tough). Each section had dozens of problems that all asked the same thing. They "changed" the problems by doing things like rotating the triangle 90 degrees. sick Oh, BTW, these textbooks were official state-of-California-approved books.
    Val, do you recall which textbooks those were? I'd like to check on the text used by DS's school, though his algebra class was rather complete.

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    #158568 - 05/29/13 01:04 PM Re: Precalculus text for independent study? [Re: HowlerKarma]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    I can vouch for the Pearson products being internally consistent, but not necessarily "solid" in a way that sets up higher math learning.

    Frankly, 90% of geometry and algebra II out of those textbooks was a colossal waste of time, as it didn't really teach much that was new. It was review of earlier concepts, and issuing postulates and theorems right and left, and-- as Val notes-- exercises including four or five types of problems with 7-10 different ways of iterating them. We didn't bother with those, as they were most inane "follow the steps in example 3" sorts of procedural questions, not thinking questions. We stuck with the "challenge" questions for my DD. She did about 60% of those in most chapters. It would have been nice if there had been more of those to choose from. I often made problems up.

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    #158597 - 05/29/13 04:10 PM Re: Precalculus text for independent study? [Re: HowlerKarma]
    madeinuk Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/13
    Posts: 1453
    Loc: NJ
    Have you tried looking at Forgotten Calculus? It isn't mathy for its own sake but is quite practical from what I have seen. I bought forgotten algebra and the calc one at a yard sale for next to nothing to try to brush up purely for fun. The algebra one had good worked examples - there were mistakes in the answer keys but weirdly I found it motivating to rework stuff to prove to myself beyond doubt that I was right and the book was wrong. I have only browsed the calc one but it seems like a solid practical intro to me. I haven't looked at this stuff since my 'A' levels mind (early 80s) so rusty would be understating things...


    Edited by madeinuk (05/29/13 04:11 PM)
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    #158614 - 05/29/13 05:41 PM Re: Precalculus text for independent study? [Re: kcab]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3294
    Loc: California
    Originally Posted By: kcab
    Val, do you recall which textbooks those were? I'd like to check on the text used by DS's school, though his algebra class was rather complete.



    Here's the Geometry book on Amazon.

    I reviewed the book. What I wrote is a good summary of my feelings about it (bottom line: this is a textbook in need of some Ritalin). Note about the other reviews: there 7 apart from mine. Four were feedback about the seller, two were about tutoring, and one was a real review.

    The algebra book was in the same series.


    Edited by Val (05/29/13 05:45 PM)

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    #158628 - 05/29/13 07:41 PM Re: Precalculus text for independent study? [Re: HowlerKarma]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Sounds remarkably like a kissing cousin to the geometry text that my daughter used.


    The first review there is 100% accurate, in my estimation, though what the erstwhile educator posits (that the text would be good for "mathy" kids and lousy for everyone else) is also false because they don't learn the correct foundation either. DD definitely didn't find her geometry course "too challenging" but it was disconcertingly ... RANDOM.

    What is even sadder is that families in our school who have not had experience with anything but Calvert math or Pearson (EveryDay Math, then the numbered sequence) seem to think that this is an AWESOME!! textbook... why? Evidently for it's unquestionable superiority over EveryDay Math.

    (This boggles my mind. Not having experienced the dubious joys of EDM myself, I can't say... but anything that makes this geometry text look "excellent" by comparison has got to be horrific.)


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    #158645 - 05/29/13 09:26 PM Re: Precalculus text for independent study? [Re: Val]
    kcab Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/02/07
    Posts: 1603
    Loc: Sparta, apparently
    Originally Posted By: Val
    Originally Posted By: kcab
    Val, do you recall which textbooks those were? I'd like to check on the text used by DS's school, though his algebra class was rather complete.



    Here's the Geometry book on Amazon.

    I reviewed the book. What I wrote is a good summary of my feelings about it (bottom line: this is a textbook in need of some Ritalin). Note about the other reviews: there 7 apart from mine. Four were feedback about the seller, two were about tutoring, and one was a real review.

    The algebra book was in the same series.
    Thanks! I think the book you recommended is the one DS's school uses, so that is one less thing to worry about.
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    #170242 - 10/05/13 05:51 AM Re: Precalculus text for independent study? [Re: HowlerKarma]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2634
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: HowlerKarma
    I'm looking for recommendations from the mathy people here-- it's been so long since I took any precalc (and there's been significant reorganization in how secondary math is taught) that my own experience is little use to me.

    Needs to:

    a) move at a reasonably good clip, low repetition, low spiraling levels (so probably a college text is better than one intended for high school)

    b) have MANY applications-types questions, and relatively few of the basic drill variety

    c) ideally, a good older edition which I can get for cheap. I'm looking, in a perfect world, to spend less than $60 on this.

    d) video tutorials or something like that on an instructional CD, meh-- maybe. A solutions guide or online companion site, probably better.

    You have probably settled on a book, but this topic may be of continuing general interest.

    The book "Introductory Analysis" by Dolciani, Sorgenfrey, Graham and Myers (1988) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0395524326 was the last revision co-authored by Dolciani of "Modern Introductory Analysis" (1964). Referring to your criteria above, it satisfies (a) and (c) but not (d). Regarding (b), there are some but not too many application problems, but in the harder questions (labeled C, with easy and intermediate problems labelled A and B) there are lots of proofs. It is a good book for a math major.

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    #170246 - 10/05/13 08:12 AM Re: Precalculus text for independent study? [Re: HowlerKarma]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Thanks for the recommendation!

    Her current precalc class is using a Pearson product... (meh-- and the class itself is 'meh' too, fwiw)

    but we also managed to snag a gently used copy of Lial which is GREAT.

    I'll also look for the Dolciani next time I am adding thing to the Amazon wishlist.

    As long as I make it reasonably clear that I'm not intending to put it into the shopping cart (yet-- heheheh) I think that my spouse won't scalp me.

    If he gets mad, I'm blaming you. grin

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