Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Anecdotes Requested Re: Early Ed Experiences

Kriston - we cross-posted lol! I answered some of your questions I think regarding testing. I did after a 2month search find someone who specializes in GT kids. DS was given the WISCIV. The results were intersting and not at all what I expected. He came out very high in verbal (DYS numbers) and relatively low in PRI (127 or 129 depending on which of the numbers from the psych I believe) but I always had him pegged as a visual, mathy kid. But I read that algebraic thinking was more tied to VCI and geometric thinking to PRI and that makes sense w/ him. I have introduced him to very simple algebra and he got it instantly. I think he's the kid in the advanced math books who is good at figuring out the problem but slower w/ the computation (mostly b/c I think it takes energy and he's getting out of the habit of thinking). The psych hand scored the test and gave me those numbers to take home. He then computer scored it and got different numbers. I'm waiting for him to sort it out - that was over a month ago.

Anyhow, interesting comments from the testing. DS missed easy questions but would then perk up when the ? got harder and get those correct. He missed some easy block design puzzles but got the hardest problem right that psych said middle-high schoolers have trouble with. He got tired towards the end of testing and psych said he would have scored higher if he had split the testing into 2 sessions. Plus DS had soccer practice beforehand.

I'd like for him to take the WJIII to get a handle on LOG as Dottie has recommended but it will have to wait until summer as I'd like it to be done in more than one session. But I feel like, at this point, it might not be reflective of him since he's been held back by the school.

I'm reading this fascinating book by Dr. Ratey titled "Spark: the link between exercise and the brain." He talks about the school that implemented a radical PE program before school and how test scores have soared. Similar programs introduced at other schools, even low SES schools have had similar results. He then talks about the science of the brain. THe exercise induces BDNF which makes new neurons grow as well as strengthens connections in old neurons. Based on data in rodents, exercise primes the brain for learning. I thought - there you go, physiological explanation for dumbing down our kids.

"Gym class provides the brain with the right tools to learn, and the stimulation in the kids' classes encourages those newly developing cells to plug into the network..." I thought but what if the kid is not being stimulated in the classroom? Well, those neuronal connections are lost, those new neurons are lost. Not to mention that kids in our district only get PE 2x/week.

Anyhow, I don't want to go to far off topic. IF someone is interested in this book, I can break it out as a new topic.

Yup, sounds like GT denial to me. DYS numbers on verbal still counts, you know!

My DS has DYS numbers for PRI but not for verbal. Doesn't matter. One of the two is all it takes. And FWIW, his math scores were his lowest scores on the WJ-3 achievement test. He seems like a highly verbal kid, though his PRI would seem to indicate that math should be his strength. Also FWIW, our DS does seem to me to be a natural-born engineer, so when he gets to more conceptual math, I think he's going to really dig into it. He's not a big fan of computation either, just like your son. For that reason, homeschooling seems to be working pretty well for him. I'm able to do more conceptual stuff so as to keep his love for math learning alive. Killing that love before he gets to the higher math and engineering stuff is my greatest fear. I have my bad days, but I'm sure I'm doing better about keeping it alive than the public school did.

BTW, in an IQ test, boredom with the easy questions and interest in the hard ones is a good sign that you have an HG+ child on your hands. I'm just sayin'...

How your DS does on the WJ-3 might surprise you. When our DS took it, it certainly surprised me! If your son is doing algebra, he's *way* ahead of what our DS was doing, and still our DS scored at the DYS-level or above on 3 of the 4 broad areas that DYS looks at. Math was the only one he was below on, and he missed that by just one point, with no real effort on our part or the school's part to challenge him in math. (I'm verbal, so the verbal challenge stuff came naturally to me. Math...not so much!) Anyway, your son is young enough that just because he hasn't gotten it at school, it doesn't mean he's not getting it. You know?

I suspect you're going to have to admit that you're "one of us" sooner rather than later...

And thanks for the book rec. I'm a big believer in exercise, especially for kids!

Today, I gave DS the surveys from "RE-forming Gifted Education." He did the subject ones. Of course, science came out nearly 4.0. Arts came out low motivation lol. He hasn't completed the reading one yet. Interestingly, math came out low motivation (2.31). I asked him about this and he said b/c there isn't anything to learn about math beyond addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. I wonder if he thinks this b/c for him, he's been doing this for 3yrs and haven't seen much of anything else at school. I really want to work on his math motivation this summer. He scored low (2.80) on "attitudes about school and learning" as well. The motivated about school range is 2.67-3.33 while highly motivated is 3.34-4.00. Not below the lowest score range but near the bottom of it.

All of this from a kid who used to ask me math problems before bed and make up his own math problems for himself. He was always very intense about learning new things.

the scales are 4 (always agree), 3 (usually agree), 2 (sometimes agree), and 1 (disagree).
Schools is the best place for me to learn. 2.
School excites me. Every day is great 2.

So I guess this begs the question - if he doesn't feel that school is the best place to learn, why is he spending 7hrs/day 5days/week there?


About denial....uh well I'd prefer to think I'm in denial rather than I'm right. Ha Ha Ha.

I think WJ will have to wait until summer when DS has more free time. Plus the psych was having knee problems and contemplating surgery. He's not returned my calls to regarding score recalc and scheduling the WISC and it's been a month already. I guess I'll leave another message this week.

Thanks for helping me to think through all this and being a sounding board as well as giving advice!

Never enough time Dazey

It's scary to see that sort of change, isn't it? I know that's how I felt. What's happening to him? This is not the boy I sent to school.


That was the same question we asked about our son. I don't mean to overidentify with your situation, but I know that when we started to see these things with our son, it became clear to us very fast that we were either going to have to advocate hard for some significant adaptations in the way the school taught him, or we were going to have to homeschool. Something had to change.

Keep talking if it's helping.

Oh and regarding him doing algebra, I'm talking the easy Singapore Math problems you can solve w/ bar diagrams. I then showed him the algebraic method for doing it and he got it. I'm going to get back to having him do a page in the SM CWP books on the weekends and see if that lights his fire again.

Hey, Dazey. Your DS sounds similar to mine, so I found that survey on a google site and gave it to him the best I could (couldn't complete all the surveys, as not all pages were there). Attitudes about school were 1.6, math was about 1.7 (that one surprised me) and science was 3.8. Everything else would be low, too. There is no joy left about school, that's for sure. I hadn't read that book and now I think I might take a look. Sorry your guy is having such a hard time, too.

And re: your question, "if he doesn't feel that school is the best place to learn, why is he spending 7hrs/day 5days/week there?" - this is exactly what my son asks me!

Dazey - re: your son missing the early questions on the IQ tests. In case you do testing again, just wanted to add that before DS4 was tested, I got all sorts of wonderful advice from folks on this forum re: preparing my son, who did not like doing anything he already knew how to do. Based on this advice, I told DS that he should answer the questions that seem to easy or even silly, because that's how to get to the more interesting questions. Also, I told him he could ask for a break at any time if he was feeling tired.

St. Pauli girl - I think I did mention to him that the ? would start off easy and then get harder. I will definitely remind him of this before the WJIII.

Questions - what grade is your son in?

Same - second.

"RE-forming Gifted Education"

Where did you find this online? I googled it but only found the book to buy.

We're in the same boat. Son (6.75) is in 1st now. Don't know what to do next year.

I've enjoyed this thread. What a lot we all have in common!