Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Anecdotes Requested Re: Early Ed Experiences

I think those are excellent points, kcab.

I read somewhere (Deborah Ruf's book, maybe?) that the best thing you can do when a child has a bad school fit is SOMETHING. Even if what you do doesn't actually help, at least it telegraphs to the child that you understand, that you care, and that you have the power and desire to make changes. These are the things that matter most to a child. These are the things that give a child the hope to hang in there and to trust you.

YMMV...

Here's a brief summary of my DS5 and his journey to this point. Hopefully your DH can get something out of our struggles.

6 months old-4.5 years old: I worked full time and my son was at a daycare/preschool. He moved to the preschool class at 3.5 years old. When he entered that room he was a very happy, popular boy. The teachers all loved him, the other kids loved him and he never got in trouble. After about 8 months in that room the teacher told me that he was very advanced and he has already mastered everything she hoped to teach him for K. He was teaching himself to read and he loved puzzles and math problems. On the other hand he was also becoming a huge behavior problem. He was quickly losing friends and he would talk back and throw fits whenever they tried to give him a time out. IMO, they overused timeouts and it got to the point where he was spending at least an hour a morning outside the director's office and we were sending a communication book back and forth each day to discuss his behavior. My son was miserable. At home he was angry and the only thing that seem to make him happy and when we allowed him to learn in the evening. He begged for workbooks and math problems. We had him tested the following fall at 4.5 years old and he remained in the same preschool class (no K early entry in our district). His testing shocked us.

4.5-present: After the testing we decided to move him to a Montessori school for 3-6 year olds. It took a few months for him to settle in and my son is much happier. Is he working at his full academic potential right now? No, but he is a much happier child and barely has the same angry outburst and behavior issues we saw last year. This fall at age 5.5 he will stay at the school for the Extended Day program. I really hope that I can work with his teachers to keep him engaged as he is quickly going through the school's materials.

I have no idea what will be do for the fall of 2009. I get a little panicky thinking about it. There are no gifted or even private schools that accommodate gifted children near me.

Good points. My son had 2 fun preK years at a play-based preK. It has lots of animals, including horses, lots of outdoor play etc and DS enjoyed it. He had a horrible K year. The teacher didn't know the meaning of the word "differentiation." I was informed at Nov PT conference that he was ready for 1st grade. It was downhill from there. DS would cry most evenings in bed about school. He was withdrawn when he came home. We somehow made it through the year. It took a month into the summer to get my boy back, one who loved to learn. So, in September, for meet the teacher day, I told DS to be sure to tell me how he is feeling about school this year. His response? "Why? I did that last year and you couldn't do anything about it. Nothing changed." I could have cried. My son was learning that there is things in life that not even his parents have control over.

First grade was better. His teacher had a BS in science and had science stuff in the room. SHe did alot of projects in the class. They played alot of math games so while he didn't learn many new math concepts, the games were fun and reinforcing. The last 2months of school were hard. Since the advanced kids had been grouped with this teacher and they were done w/ everything for the year, I think the learning came to a halt and with it, DS's complaints increased.

In our school system, kids changed schools for grades 2-5. DS didn't get the teacher which from what I was told differentiates well. He got a teacher who is in her 3rd year. She is nice, has tried some things with DS (independent project w/ another science-talented kid; a battery kit to explore in class instead of math time and reading time; a few challenge math problems here and there) but he's been unhappy. For months, maybe 5 months, he has a stomach ache every morning or a headache or dizziness. He says "Why do I have to go to school if I don't learn anything? I waste my whole day at school." He constantly complains of never having enough time for things b/c he it at school for so long. He complains about not being able to do history with me b/c there just is no time. Plus, he lollygags w/ homework so that eats time as well. Homework has been a constant battle.

People and the psych tell me to enrich at home. Well, he is already enriched at home but now after being gone all day, he just wants to play when he's home.

With my son, he's not like most of the kids here, he's not light years ahead of his peers. When I looked at the Everyday math book, I thought if he could start in the last fourth of the book, he'd have been ok with it. But he's a thinker. It's my feeling that school is boring, partly b/c of things he already knows, but b/c of the lack of stimulating material. I don't think I'm explaining myself well.

I recounted a couple of conversations between my son and I to a teacher friend. She commented that if he's able to discuss books on that level, no wonder he's bored in class. He won't get that level of book or discussion at school.

WHile my son was advanced in math early - not to the extent of kids here - but quite advanced compared to his local peers, I've notice his love of math, playing with numbers, figuring things out on his own eroding. I don't know if it's the teacher or the curriculum (Everyday Math) or both. In several months, his 5yr old brother will probably be at the same level in math when initially DS was 2yrs ahead. He's been kept in a holding pattern I feel. I recently found out from DS that they are not practicing math facts. His mental math skills have completely eroded. I did Rightstart math with him his summer after K after the suggestion of a teacher friend. In K, he learned that math was boring and that he wasn't good at it. How could he conclude that he wasn't good at it when he was so far ahead of his peers? Well, he couldn't figure out things on his own so he felt he wasn't good at math. He blossomed with us doing math regularly at home. But during the school year, it's tough to keep it up especially after the baby was born last year. I had laid such a wonderful foundation for critical thinking and mental manipulation of numbers - and it seems it's all POOF. He needs reinforcement but to also be constantly moving forward.

I've talked to the teacher. SHe tells me that DS is so happy when he's at school. He comes in all smiles. DS loves the interaction with his friends so I"m sure he loves that part. He's been a bit happier recently b/c alot of things are going on at the school - non academic things. But it's hard to get him going in the morning. But when he was on vacation w/ his grandparents, they reported he jumped out bed, got dressed, got ready and came down ready to start the day. He also did not have one stomach ache or headache or dizziness and he also slept well.

I don't know..well, it's 2am, the baby woke me up and then once I started thinking about all this, I was too stressed to sleep...hence my long winded post....I'll probably delete most of it in the morning. I guess I'll try to sleep now......

Hey, Dazey--

Are you still up? It's only 11:30 here. I have a strong feeling that your son will become excited about math again. It is harder with two kids--I completely understand and I hope you are not feeling guilty. There is no way for you to provide the perfect enriching environment for all your kids at all times. That just isn't reality.

I hope you don't delete your post. It is very heartfelt and I think many of us have felt the same things.

Happy Mother's Day!

Cathy

I am prety certain that this is where DD4.5 is now. After all, I have been talking to the teacher several times in the year, but nothing has changed for DD. She has stoped to complain and pretends she likes the school. She copes by pretending she is someone else. She is such a good actress that the teacher is fully buying into it. She even pretends to me that she likes the school... however, while she is telling me that she likes the teacher and the school she looks away and her eye pupils contract significantly...

Now for you DH a little bit of history:

- at 2yr4m she started a preschool, two mornings a week. It was completely non academic. She took two months to adjust but then made a friend and started loving it and having great time there. However, at the same time, at home, she stoped completely doing puzzles, being interested in letters and wanted to watch TV all day long. I think this is where she got her visual problems.
She as well started to misbehave a little at home. Before that she was literally a 'saint'.
Preschool was not the only cause for this change (I was pregnant and burst quite easly) but it certainly contributed a lot to it.

- At 2y 11 m DS was born and DD was really miserable and acting out.

Then when she was 3yr+ she started to go all mornings to the preschool, thinking that since she liked so much it would do good to her... Oh boy, how wrong I was. This is when all the problems really started. First, the friend that she had made was not going all the mornings, only two (as DD initially). DD did not interact well with other kids (ages 2-4) at all, despite having a mega social character. I started to receive more and more complains about her and at home her behavior deteriorated horribly.

After a few months, we decided to pull her partially out and leaver her two mornings as initially. You should have seen her when I told her she did not need to go all mornings. She really looked like a heavy weight had been lifted from her shoulders and her behavior improved a lot that same day.

During the summer break we got her tested in Spain and the test results put her somewhere in the MG+ range - althought I have reasons to believe that she is in fact in the EG range- but that's another story.

Then at 4 she started a new Montessori School. It all looks very promising and the teacher seemed very receptive to all I had to tell her about DD.
However, the teacher did not get DD at all and complain that she wanted to activities that were 'too hard'.
Anyway, DD seemed to be doing better at the school . I had a conference with the teacher and she told me that. I talked to DD and she burts out that she was completely unhappy at the school. After that, DD started to complain a lot about the school and complaining about stomach aches all the mornings.
I talked again to the teacher, who then talked to DD who told her that all was very difficult,..
Long story short: The teacher obviously had no clue how to deal with DD and DD is coping with the stress by acting - not acting out - but pretending she is a little girl. She is now underachieving big time and having rampant perfectionism. She seems to have lost her love of learning - although, right now, after almost two weeks of holidays it has come back a little.

We are right now looking for solutions next year.

I am still thinking seriously to keep her home the rest of the year, but DH is quite oposed to the idea. After she is 5 she has to atend school, homeschooling is a criminal offense here...

Ah! and of course we try to do some afterschooling, trip to museums, etc but with an ... ehem.... quite active 21 months old DS is kind of hard.

Voila! That's all. Hope it was not too long...

I just wanted to add that I made DH read the whole threat and after we discussed the topic we decided together that keeping DD at home for the rest of the year was probably the 'less bad' solution.
I am going to have a chat first with DD about how she would feel if she stay at home and and if she agrees then ... we 'homeschool' for a few months

I will probably open a new topic, but now, I am going to have some rest, since bith DS and DD are sleeping ..... shhhhhhh

Hey, Dazey? Have you had your DS evaluated for GTness? I ask because I suspect his scores might surprise you. You keep saying things like "he's not like some of the kids around this forum," but the fact is, I would have said the same thing about my son last year, or even at the start of this year. Yet now that I've seen my DS's scores and have talked to a good psychologist who specializes in helping GT kids, and now that I'm teaching him so that I see every day just how easy many things are for him, I see that he *is* like many of the kids here.

YMMV, of course, because I don't know any more about your DS than you've told us. But your post just sounds so much like something I would have written before we had our DS evaluated. And last year my DS was performing only a little above grade level in math because that's all the higher the work was that he was being given to do. He was reading just a couple years above grade level because even I didn't provide books tht were harder than that. Now he's loving 8th grade geometry and reading at the 7th+ grade level because that's what he's being given to do.

What I'm saying is that kids who are thinkers, as you say, like yours and mine may be a lot smarter than they're allowed to show. Your DS's boredom and stomachaches say to me that this is what's happening to him. I suspect he's not just a little smarter, but a good bit.

If you haven't had him tested, I'd strongly recommend finding a person skilled in working with GT kids who can administer both an IQ test and an achievement test. I think it would be wise to get some more information about your son.

From what I've seen, people who hang out here and get something they need from this group probably have a child who is a peer of the kids here. Anyone is welcome, of course, but if the kids we talk about make sense to you, then yours is probably one of them. I hate to suggest GT denial to you, but I strongly suspect you may have a case of it...

Hang in there! If we can help, just say the word!

K-

Thank you, friends, for your help! And Happy Mother's Day to all of the moms!

CFK, fyi, I answered your question in a pm.

I'm interested to know if it helps your DH, questions. I hope it does!

Cathy - well I got into bed but laid awake for some time. THe toddler (whom I also refer to as the baby lol) has a stuffy nose she tossed and turned and moaned and cried out for a couple of hours. Also, I have a just turned 5yr old as well so 3 kids altogether.

I should also add that my 2nd grader is not DYS. He qualifies based on VCI of the WISCIV (well assuming my calc and Dottie's calcs are correct. I'm still waiting for psych to recalculate) and we haven't done achievement testing yet. At this point, given how the school has failed him, I scared to think how he might score on an achievement test. Teachers claim that they all even out ... well, yes, it's b/c they hold the bright kids back. NCLB - No CHild Leaps Beyond.

I asked him about school this morning. He said it was boring, I asked him to elaborate. He said b/c he gets the stuff at school over and over and over that I taught him at home. We talked about how he was ready and asking and needing to learn earlier than other kids. My DH and i are both scientists so science is in our blood just as a matter of living the day we talk about insects, nature, space, chemistry, physics etc. In the Spring, Summer and Fall we do a nature study at a local pond that we monitor weekly or more often. We watch the frogs mating, eggs being laid, eggs developing, hatching, tadpoles developing...well you get the picture. But every year these same topics are covered and more shallow than we've covered. Social studies has been new for him and he has enjoyed that but he says it doesn't compare to the history we were doing at home. He's really, really into WWII and loves Ancient History.

Anyhow, I asked him what does he think we should do. He suggested we talk to the Principal. Now I could not get this kid to even write a letter to the Principal asking for more balls for recess - I'm shocked he came up with that.

A friend of mine, her DS's preK teacher said that in all her 30yrs of teaching, she has never come across a child as advanced as her son. She went to our districts Parent meetings for rising Ker's. A mom asked about what if child knows everything the teacher had just listed. The teacher replied "Well then that kid needs to find something else to do." My friend met w/ the Principal after hearing that statement and the only thing she had to say was "the only kids that are bored in K are the ones that spend all day watching TV and playing video games. They just want to be constantly entertained." She wasn't even listening to her saying that her son had mastered those things 2yrs ago. Our district according to the GT coordinator has a No acceleration policy. Another friend was told, regarding grade skipping "Oh that's not done any longer." DS's current Principal (according to an inside source of mine) appears to be all-show and not much substance. THis is his first year as Principal, was VP. I really don't feel I'd get very far advocating. I think the feeling is that our district is the best in the county so they don't really need to do anything else. I hate the year to year changing teachers wondering if you're going to get *the* good one. And you don't know who the good one is until half way through the year until she find out he/she deals w/ your child. We had a good 3rd grade line-up (4/6 teachers were considered very good) but 2 of them has been moved to 5th grade while 2 of the poor 5th grade teachers have been moved down to 3rd. Lovely.

I'm thinking seriously of HSing DS in Fall.