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    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Thank goodness for hedge fund managers. Improving the world for all.

    I'm sorry, but I really weary of equating wealth and earning power with success and value to the world.

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    "Federal judge" was on the list of things I never wanted to do.

    In fact, "clerking for a federal judge" was on the list of things I never wanted to do.

    My wife keeps pushing for me to be an ALJ, which is vaguely federal judgish.

    That would give me a six figure salary, government benefits, and I would get to be a union member.

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    Originally Posted by Jonathan Wai
    The super smart are highly likely to invent something that will change our lives. When a gifted kid grows up to be a successful scientist, engineer, or inventor and develops the cure for a disease, discovers a new energy source, or invents the next life-changing device, he or she will have created something for everyone.
    ...
    In competitive sports there are bench warmers, average players, and stars. In education there are below average, average, and star students. If a coach decided to focus solely on developing the talent of the bench and average players, it is doubtful that fans would approve—it would reduce the competitiveness of the team. Yet we commit the educational equivalent in America—we focus on educating our below average and average students and tend to ignore our top students. If this doesn't work in the competitive world of sports, why does it make sense in our cutthroat global economy?

    I agree completely. It's a travesty I recognized while receiving my own public school education.

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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    LOL. Somehow I doubt that most math instructors see it in quite those exact terms. grin

    Well, my calculus teacher was kind enough to let me opt out of the month spent reviewing prior to the AP exam.

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    Megan McArdle espouses my views at the Daily Beast:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-pulling-away-from-the-middle-class.html
    In Educational Achievement, the Rich are Pulling Away From the Middle Class
    Apr 29, 2013 12:17 PM EDT
    Is education turning into a caste system?

    Quote
    There used to be a big educational gap between poor children and everyone else. And not just because they were in failing schools; poor kids showed up at school less prepared than the other kids, and the gap widened over the years.

    Now, according to Sean Reardon, there is also a gap between the middle class and the elite. American society is increasingly stratified, he says, because elite parents are investing so much in the cognitive enrichment of their kids.

    But is that really the right explanation? The rich pulling away from the middle class is also exactly what we would see if test-taking ability has a substantial inherited component, and the American economy is increasingly selecting for people who are very, very good at taking tests. The latter is undoubtedly true, and there's some fairly strong evidence for the former, in the form of studies of adopted kids. Such studies tend to show that adopted kids bear a much stronger resemblance to their biological parents in terms of lots of things, from weight to income to test scores, than they do to their adoptive parents. Once you've hit a fairly basic parenting threshhold--food, health care, touching and talking to your kid, and not physically or sexually abusing them--the incremental benefits of more intensive parenting seem at best small, at worst unclear.

    I have no doubt that Reardon is right, and wealthy parents are investing more in their kids because they can. But how do we know that this, rather than the fact of having parents who are great at taking tests, makes the difference. If you take a newly married graduate of the Naval Academy with strong SAT scores, do their kids show up at kindergarten meaningfully less prepared than the children of a hedge fund manager who makes many times more?

    Maybe the answer is "yes". But maybe the answer is that as we have increasingly selected for academic ability, education has become less of a springboard to success, than a barrier to it. All the people who are really good at school are marrying the other people who are really good at school, having children who are really, really good at school . . . and paying lip service to the idea that somehow, we should make all the other kids really good at school too, while reinforcing a selection mechanism that advantages their kids over all the others.


    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Megan McArdle espouses my views at the Daily Beast:

    We know from the Flynn effect that average performance on IQ tests is increasing over time. It seems to me that theories like that presented here would lead to increasing variance as well, which should also be noted when re-norming the tests, right?

    I suppose that there are factors that would lead to a decreasing variance, such as nutritional and medical advancements bringing up the lower tail. It just doesn't seem possible that the shape of the curve remains unchanged if IQ is significantly hereditary, and mating practices change.

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    "Our children come first" could mean either one. I don't who decides which one it means, the one who says it or the one who heard it. You're only responsible for what you meant to say, anyway. Does it mean, "our children are more important than your children" (for whatever reason, iq, ses) or does it mean "our children's welfare and wellbeing comes before anything else in our lives." Not everybody puts their kids first in their lives. Are you at the bar or are you building science kits with your kid? If you're working instead of either it's easy to think someone meant "our kids deserve more than your kid".

    ETA: I mean the kind of work where you get off of work early enough to eat dinner with your kids only once every two weeks and the extra money is going to repair the car, yet again, not to SAT prep or high priced NIKEs. -I hope everybody knows that those families are not rare, and struggling harder every year since Clinton. The bad economy is a real thing. I think the existance of those families is why the opinion of this article exists, white guilt, or whatever. There are other issues, just addressing that one point.

    Last edited by La Texican; 05/03/13 09:01 AM.

    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar
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    As someone who spends a great deal of time reading papers in this field, I really feel the need to say that there is NO hard data that I am aware of to support the claim that the achievement gap between the rich and middle-class is *caused* by rich parents' increasing investment in extracurriculars and tutoring. If you look at the economics papers this op-ed is based on, you'll see that this is so. This is just a theory--a hypothesis--and by the way, the papers also present several other theories. Reardon doesn't talk about the other theories. I'm pretty annoyed that this is getting so much coverage when it's so pie-in-the-sky at this point. We really, really don't have the data to say that little Timmy's weekly judo classes are why he's acing the standardized tests, although I can say that we do know that involvement in the arts and music seems to be helpful academically.

    I'm guessing that other people with boots on the ground in education and sociology are probably a little irked about all of this.

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    Also, I'm going to link this, because I still believe it's really more about this stuff than Kumon:

    http://www.childrenofthecode.org/interviews/risley.htm


    Quote
    What we found is that the more talkative parents, like the parents with college educations and the professionals like doctors and lawyers are hearing about 2,100 words an hour, hour after hour after hour. The children of welfare families were hearing about 600 words and hour, hour after hour after hour.

    So we said, "All right, what was the difference in language input, in language experience, of the language they heard, words they heard in meaningful contexts?" We estimated that the average child, figuring 100 hours a week, by the time they were four, heard thirty million words addressed to them.

    But the children of professional parents -- I mean, talkative families and college educated -- heard forty-eight million words addressed to them by the time they're four.

    Children in welfare families who were taciturn heard thirteen million words addressed to them by the time they were four.

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    ow, the interesting thing is that when look at the amount of talking the parents are doing, and the amount of extra talk they're doing over and above business talk, nothing is leftover relating to socioeconomic status. It accounts for all the variance.

    In other words, some working poor people talked a lot to their kids and their kids did really well. Some affluent business people talked very little to their kids and their kids did very poorly. You see what I'm saying.

    David Boulton: Totally. And it corresponds, as we said earlier, to information coming from the neurosciences. It makes sense.

    Dr. Todd Risley: Absolutely. And there's nothing left for race either. Remember, we stratified by African-American, and nothing left. All the variation in outcomes are taken up by amount of talking, the amount of talking in the family to the babies before age three.

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    Thank you UM for being the voice of reason here


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