Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion DS loves advanced math concepts but not practicing

Hi everyone,

I would love to get some advice from all you great people. :*) My DS(7) loves math. He is into algebra and number theory. He does not like practicing any of the concepts very much. For a while he was all excited learning about quadratic equations. Once he learned about it, his enthusiasm for it lasted for 1-2 weeks and he is on to a new concept. I feel he understands the concept, does not like to use the 'normal' way of solving things but tries to use logic as much as possible. Then, we go back to previously learned concepts it appears that he has forgotten how to use them, but will remember them quickly again once someone has shown it to him again.

My question to you - how do I instill in him that the way to solve questions has a benefit and it's not just about finding the answer and yes, there is value to practicing some concepts. He feels he knows a concept when in reality he may understand 'temporarily' but not long-term.

Today we had the first math tutor nearly quit on him as he feels that he cannot teach him anything further but he also felt that DS does not have 100% understanding on all the learned topics either.

If I need to find a new tutor, how would I best describe what I need him/ her be able to do/ what skill sets she/he needs to have?

I am curious if any of you have a similar kid and if a lot of it is also due to maturity or lack thereof given his age.

Thank you!

What is the learning environment in which he is learning these topics?

What you're seeing sounds like very typical 7 year old behavior to me (at least it sounds a lot like my own children at 7 and most of the other 7 year olds I've known). I wouldn't worry about whether or not he sees the value in practicing new concepts at this age - that's something that will come with time, and also perhaps when it's *needed*. Does he have a math tutor because he's begging for more math? If he loves math, I'd let him go with it for now. He might have to come back for more reinforcement later on, but he's got time for that down the road. For now, let him enjoy learning the things he is interested in learning, even if it seems like that changes direction every few days.

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - another thought that crossed my mind - you mentioned that he was really interested in quadratic equations and then that interest lapsed after 1-2 weeks... I'm not sure that any of the topics my kids cover in math in school really last longer than 1-2 weeks in duration - even quadratic equations. Everything builds on previous topics, but something new is also always being introduced. Even in Algebra and beyond. The thing I remember being repeated over and over again until my kids wanted to bang their collective heads against the wall was math facts

I know there are some more mathy people than myself on this board, so I hope they will chime in. For us, DD9 is similar in not wanting to repeat things over and over. It drove her nuts last year in school when the teachers didn't want to give her new stuff until she had 'perfected' the older topics, so they just kept making her do multiplication and division with more digits and if she got anything wrong they would say, see, she doesn't know it--she needs more practice, and she needs to correct *all* of her mistakes before moving on, so she never got beyond 4 digits--can you imagine doing that all year?? They kept saying they would give her more advanced stuff but never did. (maybe 5 digits? ridiculous) She hated it. We've had more success afterschooling with EPGY, starting when that stuff was happening (although EPGY does have its glitches), and one thing I like is that it keeps cycling the problems back around and if you miss the answers it will give you more of that kind of problem in the future, while if you get them right it will move on more quickly (or at least that is what is supposed to happen, and how it seems, although it varies from course to course). But it's really more about teaching techniques, like (in the algebra course) factoring polynomials for example rather than teaching or even discussing theory. I'm trying to supplement with books but it's difficult because I can't answer any questions that might come up and I feel like maybe DD could go farther if I could, but she seems content at least for now so I haven't pushed it. Since your DS is so advanced, I think it's great that he has a tutor because it seems like that one-on-one instruction from a good teacher is what is really valuable in inspiring a love of math and theory. I think making a kid like that drill until they get everything right first might cause them to lose interest in math altogether--unless he's really not able to understand the next topic because he didn't really grasp the previous one. I guess that might be hard to sort out, but maybe a different tutor would be able to understand this distinction and inspire your kid to go a lot farther. I feel like I can teach my DD the mechanics of math but I don't know enough about theory to either teach or to inspire her, but for her I'm not sure that's where she would be going anyway--it sounds like your DS might be really wanting to go there, so I hope he does. Good luck!

we've noticed this too. since in class they're still counting to 20, my DD5 begged for an online Math programme and she's been flying along with it. each lesson has 10 problems - she generally gets about 4 correct in a row before feeling like she's mastered the concept, and then she invariably wants to switch to something new. when she comes back to the original section, she freaks out because the programme won't let her move on without a) going back and doing the first few over again and b) actually completing the lesson. it's a simple limitation of the online programme, but... ha - it's not like her teachers are any more flexible.

so we've used various tricks to get her to see all of this in a different way, all of which take advantage of her personal currency. she really likes to know her brain is growing - so we've emphasized how much more her brain grows when she's doing something challenging. the repetitive problems themselves aren't challenging, but something about the situation is, or she would just power through it... so we get her to focus on that part - that she's growing her grit/resilience/patience/whatever and as a bonus, she will actually get to move on to the next level, which is what she wanted anyway!

good luck!

DS7 runs about the same way and at a similar place in math. Watching videos on quadratic equations, even some calculus stuff, sometimes doing math stuff through another app, etc. He also stops when he thinks he has the idea. Since he like complex problems, I'll sometimes find him a problem that calls on some subject he's ran through.

My overall thought on this, however, is: Whatever he is doing certainly works for him! Even if not every subject sticks with him, he'll reinforce it later. Traditional approaches and methods may not be applicable. I'll trust that he picks back up on the peripheral skills and structured solving when he is ready to do that. Maybe this style combined with enthusiasm is as significant to the skills of a kid who is functioning four or more standard deviations out in math as is the basic intelligence they bring to bear on it. I don't want to break a good thing.

Hmmm-- well, I don't really see what the OP is describing as problematic in the context of how math curriculum is designed these days. If anything, this touch-and-return method seems IDEALLY suited to the spiraling curriculum.

I wouldn't worry about it. He sounds like he's getting out of it what he can/desires and then moving on, and it actually is a pretty decent match for the way schools approach teaching these days. I wouldn't tweak that too much!!

You'd have more trouble with a kid that takes this attitude and has actual-- real-- mastery that fast, because then when they see the topic again, there is sneering and refusal to do anything at all because they "already know this stuff"(and they really do, see, that's the problem).

Oh, and the answer for mastery kids like my DD?

Give them problems that are hard enough or unique enough that they HAVE to bring the new skill to bear... or at least can see how much more efficient it is to do things that way.

I'm sorry to rain on the parade, but some things don't sound right here. What does it mean to "practice concepts"? It makes sense to "practice methods (or algorithms)" and it makes sense to "understand concepts".

Also it is concerning when you say "we go back to previously learned concepts it appears that he has forgotten how to use them". Why does this happen?

I'm concerned that the approach to mathematics may be wrong, and that there may be too much rushing ahead without a solid foundation.

Not sure if the OP means the same thing, but words I use alternatively with "practice concepts" are "play" and "experiment."

I remember when I learned Pythagoras Theorem. I spent a lot of time practicing with the concept. The school might've wanted me to keep practicing a method of plugging in a side and a hypotenuse and getting the other side. I didn't really need to do that. I needed to play with the concept, and find all sorts of amazing things I can solve using the equation. So I would practice the thought process of applying the formula to various cases like non-right triangles or how about with rectangles and area and.. etc.