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    #155130 - 05/01/13 09:21 AM Re: NYT opinion: No (rich) child left behind [Re: HowlerKarma]
    ultramarina Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/24/10
    Posts: 3428
    Also, the thing about 0-5 interventions is that it really IS DIFFERENT at that age. The brain is developing so rapidly. Later on, it just isn't the same. It's biology. You can dislike it, but that doesn't make it go away.

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    #155132 - 05/01/13 09:25 AM Re: NYT opinion: No (rich) child left behind [Re: HowlerKarma]
    ultramarina Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/24/10
    Posts: 3428
    Well, some of them actually show pretty impressive effects. Head Start does not.

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    #155134 - 05/01/13 09:26 AM Re: NYT opinion: No (rich) child left behind [Re: HowlerKarma]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Right, and my understanding is that the ones which show the most robust effects are those that tackle the entire environment-- not just "education" in the form of schooling for the child.
    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

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    #155135 - 05/01/13 09:28 AM Re: NYT opinion: No (rich) child left behind [Re: HowlerKarma]
    deacongirl Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/03/10
    Posts: 948
    Originally Posted By: HowlerKarma
    Right, and my understanding is that the ones which show the most robust effects are those that tackle the entire environment-- not just "education" in the form of schooling for the child.

    Yup. I like Harlem Children's Zone. Also Urban Promise in Camden (and other cities).

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    #155137 - 05/01/13 09:32 AM Re: NYT opinion: No (rich) child left behind [Re: ultramarina]
    KADmom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/11/13
    Posts: 690
    Re: "Well, some of them actually show pretty impressive effects. Head Start does not."


    That's right, it doesn't. That's the puzzle. There are plenty of economically-challenged parents who care about the welfare of their children and the quality of education and there are those who do not. The challenge is how to reach the latter group.

    The effect of poverty and malnutrition on the developing brain is staggering...


    Edited by KADmom (05/01/13 09:34 AM)

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    #155140 - 05/01/13 09:37 AM Re: NYT opinion: No (rich) child left behind [Re: HowlerKarma]
    KADmom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/11/13
    Posts: 690
    I live in an area in which astonishing wealth is right up close with middle class and horrifying poverty. Poverty in which you see parents who have their priorities all wrong; children who are homeless or are surrounded by violence every day, and not having a book in the house is the least of their stresses.


    Edited by KADmom (05/01/13 10:26 AM)

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    #155141 - 05/01/13 09:38 AM Re: NYT opinion: No (rich) child left behind [Re: HowlerKarma]
    deacongirl Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/03/10
    Posts: 948
    America's Staggering Education Gap
    http://www.salon.com/2013/04/29/americas_staggering_education_gap_partner/

    More food for thought.

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    #155142 - 05/01/13 09:38 AM Re: NYT opinion: No (rich) child left behind [Re: HowlerKarma]
    KADmom Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/11/13
    Posts: 690
    Originally Posted By: HowlerKarma
    Right, and my understanding is that the ones which show the most robust effects are those that tackle the entire environment-- not just "education" in the form of schooling for the child.


    Yes.

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    #155143 - 05/01/13 09:40 AM Re: NYT opinion: No (rich) child left behind [Re: KADmom]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Originally Posted By: KADmom
    I live in an area in which astonishing wealth is right up close with middle class and horrifying poverty. Poverty in which you see parents who have their priorities all wrong; children who are homeless or are surrounded by violence every day, not having a book in the house is the least of their stresses.



    Exactly. And for children in those kinds of circumstances, I'm just stunned when administrators/policy-makers don't see this as an economic problem-- but view it as "bad parenting" alone... and chastise parents for not "being more invested in their children's educations."

    The argument always seems to be-- well, then those parents should move/find better housing/look for a better job/...

    You know-- make better choices.

    shocked I just think-- "WOW. Somebody doesn't get it."

    Is it really such a wrong set of priorities to be concerned about purchasing antibiotics or keeping the electricity turned on rather than reading at bedtime every night? And if you don't happen to have an education sufficient to earn more than minimum wage, how exactly DO you go about building a nest egg for first/last/deposits on a nicer place to live? How do you take time off from work to go on job interviews if you can't afford to even stay home when you are sick?

    Being truly poor is, I have decided, almost beyond comprehension for anyone who has never had to make gut-wrenching choices about WHICH basic needs to fulfill.

    To even talk about education to that group of people is kind of hysterical. Not because they are stupid or don't care-- but because it's like trying to describe the ocean to a prairie dog.
    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

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    #155144 - 05/01/13 09:54 AM Re: NYT opinion: No (rich) child left behind [Re: deacongirl]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2600
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: deacongirl

    Yup. I like Harlem Children's Zone. Also Urban Promise in Camden (and other cities).

    If you provide a suite of social services so that the children of unwed, uneducated single mothers are well taken care of, this may send a message to young women and men to have children that they themselves are not willing or able to care for.

    Where would the money come from to expand all these programs nationwide? Many people are willing to work hard to provide for their our children but not to subsidize the irresponsibility of others. The illegitimacy rate in the U.S. is about 40%, and it should be lower. Birth rates have fallen in this recession, especially for people in their early 20s, whose job prospects are worse than those of the same cohort in 2007. People decide to have children or not based based in part on economic viability. That viability should be based on their earnings, not the taxpayer's.

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