Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional IEP Mtg - Dysgraphia/Writing Accomodations Help.

So, we had the IEP meeting today. It was a little rough but we got everything we needed for DS in terms of accommodations. I was prepared and it was the first time I felt that I was strong (and supported thanks to my advocate) against bullying and steamrolling. It was the first time I left an IEP meeting not feeling as though I had been bullied, pushed around and dismissed as a crazy person who wants to enable my DS's disability. I had writing samples and private OT evals showing my son over two years delayed in his writing. I showed them samples this time - of all of the reversals, etc. They were taken aback when I pulled out the private OT evals as they asserted, with a dismissive wave of their hand, that DS's writing skills are not at a 4 and 5 year old level. It says clearly "age level: 4.8-4.9 years" in these private evals by OTs at a well known established therapy practice.

Anyway, the advocate didn't say much but having her there helped and when she did speak it was good and quite effective. I felt like when it was clear they were dismissing me, she stepped in and didn't allow the issue/concern to be dismissed. She also made sure they addressed every point on the "parent agenda" I drafted. We even discussed the para incidents.

Okay so the one snafu is what to do when DS wants to continue writing beyond the accommodation set limit. So, the accommodation is now "DS is to be provided a scribe for more than 3 lines for each major writing assessment and assignment" ... Personally, I am surprised and a bit skeptical that DS actually turns down scribing because DS is always happy for me to scribe for him. Anyway, apparently what happens is that DS is very creative and often wants to continue his thought before a scribe can get to him or doesn't want to be interrupted in his train of thought. How do we deal with this situation without basically losing the accommodation to "we'll scribe when DS asks for help or looks fatigued." Any ideas?

ETA: I talked to DS and he says the reason he sometimes declines is that some days he just feels like he can write and other days he feels he can barely write a line.

Good job marytheres! You have been working incredibly hard and you finally got to see some of the fruits of your labor.

We have the same issue where DD apparently sometimes asks to do more writing. I am all for her writing if she wants but as you said not when it opens the door to being told "Do as much as you can yourself before you ask for help." Wanting to try to do more should not cause these kids to be forced to more. They have good days and bad days - I'm not sure why but they do. With my DD there is also the sensitivity of not wanting to appear different, not wanting to disappoint the adults she is working with and just plain wishing her disabilities don't exist. (We have been told that unlike many/most children with her set of challenges she is "painfully aware" of them...) Also if she is left to do her own writing she gets access to only a small portion of the curriculum. As I pointed out at our last meeting in the time it would take her to fill in 1 or 2 answers the rest of the kids in the class would probably have finished the entire worksheet and moved on to the next task. She will either complete only a small portion of the task at hand or miss the next one. That is not providing full access to the curriculum.

My suggestion, which was adopted, was to say "DD will be 'encouraged' to write one sentence and will be 'allowed' to write up to (_____ #) sentences." The spec ed teacher pointed out that no one should insist she write on any given day because sometimes she just can't. If it appears that DD wants to write more than the upper limit and is becoming frustrated she can do more while with the service providers who work with her on writing tasks and the number can be revisited at future IEP meetings. (The teacher expressed her desire to be able to be included in the list of people who could use her own judgement and allow DD to do whatever amount of writing she thought was appropriate. I guess what came next could be described as "verbal blunt force trauma" as I listed the reasons why this teacher should not and could not be allowed to exercise such judgement...)

In terms of him having to wait for the para to help him I would say this too comes under the heading of "providing access to the full curriculum." If he needs a para to write, and he is expected to complete a writing assignment, it is incumbent on the school district to make that para available to him. To use the wheelchair analogy would they have him sit there and wait for a wheelchair while the rest of the class went on ahead to (fill in the blank activity)? By the time they got him his wheelchair and wheeled him down the hall what percentage of that art/gym/music class would he have missed because his disability prevented him from walking down the hall with his class? In that scenario they would understand it was their responsibility to have the accommodation ready for him when he needed it rather than have him sitting on the side waiting for someone to allow him to access his education along with the rest of his class.

Oh this is good... why SPECIALLY TRAINED SPECIAL EDUCATORS can't come up with anything close to these kind of suggestions and accommodations really surprises me... What the heck are they learning in these "special" "education" classes? This is the first time they have a student with dysgraphia/writing disability? Anyway, This is good! Thank you!

LOL at the "verbal blunt trauma" - good work!

Okay so our current accommodation reads "Provide a scribe after three lines of writing on developmentally appropriate lined paper."

So, I am thinking perhaps we should make it:

"DS will be 'encouraged' to write up to two lines of writing on developmentally appropriate lined paper and DS will be permitted to write up to 4 lines."

I will add, like Pemberely did, that if it appears that DS wants to write more than the upper limit and is becoming frustrated he can do more while working with the paras who work with him on writing tasks and the number can be revisited at future IEP meetings.

What do you all think?

As you currently have it written the district is not required to provide the para until AFTER he has written 3 lines which is why they have him sitting there waiting for a para to come help him. Is that what you want or do you want him to have the help of para available sooner? Are you comfortable with having the para (or DS) decide how much writing he should be doing? Personally I would be concerned about allowing a para who you have previously said tells your son that he should be doing more writing (i.e "You should be doing what Peter is doing") to decide if it was appropriate for him to write more than the agreed upon amount. I don't know your DS's situation, though, so it's hard for me to comment beyond that.

In our case the only people approved to have DD do more than the IEP specified amount of writing are the spec ed teacher and the OT. DD's para who really "got her" resigned last week and we don't trust the classroom teacher farther than we can throw her. For my DD the act of writing really gets in the way - it may not be as much of an issue for your DS, though. We are hoping to move more towards the keyboarding situation MoN describes but have been stymied so far on the Assistive Technology front. Your DS may be capable of more handwriting than my DD so I don't want to steer you down the wrong path.

Maybe I would consider wording more like "Developmentally appropriate lined paper will be provided for all writing tasks. DS will be encouraged to write up to 2 lines on any task independently. A scribe will be provided for any task that will require DS to write more than 3 lines. If he requests to write 4 lines or more _______" I don't know exactly what to ask for that will make you comfortable that he is actually wanting to do this extra writing and not being subtly (or not so subtly...) pushed to do it. In our case it is getting her away from her classroom and/or classroom teacher. If she makes this request in the resource room we know it is genuinely coming from DD. If it is in the classroom we believe it is most likely a result of pressure placed on her by the classroom teacher and/or wanting to do what the other kids are doing. Have you determined if there is something that your DS interprets as putting pressure on him to conform or are you comfortable that it will really be his desire to do the extra writing? If he wants to write more - are you comfortable with that or is there some reason that his written output NEEDS to be limited?

Congrats on the successful IEP meeting!!!

Re the scribing - I think that I'd leave it at "scribe will be provided for any written work longer than xx # of sentences"... and tell your ds that's the way it's going to work, and that if he gets frustrated and wants to write more on his own, he can do that at home. Will he miss some opportunities to write when it might not have impacted him? Maybe. OTOH, the thing I'd be most concerned about (outside of potentially having the teachers think he was going to be able to grow out of the accommodation) is that when my ds was younger, he really didn't know his limits re what the impact of handwriting would be - in many ways. One of those was fatigue - he didn't realize that if he spent 15 minutes writing he might become so tired that he couldn't give 100% on the next class assignment, or that he might burn out by the end of the day and be either frustrated and unhappy at home or not be able to complete his homework. When ds was younger he also didn't realize the difference in the quality of his handwriting vs what he wrote with typing/scribing. DS was also highly driven by not wanting to be different than the other kids, so there were times when he chose handwriting over accommodations because he simply didn't want to be different. So for all of those reasons, if it was my ds, I'd not give him the option to write more in class if he felt like it.

I've been in the position where ds' school argued that they wanted to remove an accommodation because his teacher claimed ds was choosing not to use his accommodation. I argued (successfully) to keep the accommodation by showing the same documentation (neuropsych report, testing results, examples of classroom work). When the teachers and school staff tried to assert that "ds isn't choosing to use his accommodations" I just kept nicely stating "he needs accommodation ___ because he's dysgraphic, this is an example of his work with and without the accommodation.." etc. Sooooo.... I also wouldn't overly worry that your ds is going to create a situation where the school takes an accommodation away simply because he wrote more on his own occasionally. Especially if he's writing more than 3 sentences because his para isn't available immediately - that sounds more like an argument that the para needs to be more available!

Hope that makes sense

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thank you so much, both of you. Ugh, this is so difficult! Part of the problem is the school now wants something very clear because I threatened to "employ our procedural safeguards" if I find that DS isn't getting his accommodation so this situation when DS wants to do more is touchy for them. And I don't mind b/c, as hard as it is to get it right, I like the idea of it being very specific so that I can hold them to it and DS doesn't end up in situation where he does too much.

After mulling this over and talking with DS and reading your replies and suggestions. I have re-worded it to this:

“Developmentally appropriate lined paper will be provided for all writing tasks. DS will be encouraged to write up to 2 lines on developmentally appropriate lined paper on any task independently. A scribe will be provided for any task that will require DS to write more than 3 lines and DS will be permitted to write up to 4 lines Developmentally appropriate lined paper if he clearly indicates he wants to do so.”

This is scary because I do want to respect what DS wants and feels capable of in terms of writing on any given day but I am, of course, like you all very concerned about the impact of handwriting on him - the fatigue, especially getting burned out by the end of the day, frustrated and unhappy at home, etc. I wonder could I ask for a report each day of how much he wrote so that I know and can correlate his fatigue level, emotional state and even how to handle homework that day?

Based on our experience - and only our experience - I am cautious about requiring the child to request this. It may be fine - with our first grade teacher last year I would have been perfectly comfortable. This year - no way. Not only has the teacher disregarded the IEP and required DD to do it all herself when the para was out but once we finally got the school to provide a substitute para DD was told she was "lazy" and "disrespectful" for "trying to get out of doing her own school work." The IEP needs to be worded in a way that absolutely anyone who reads it will know what needs to be provided. In other words "writing task" = "para support". Maybe something requiring that DS and para alternate writing the first 6 lines and all writing is scribed beyond that level? If DS consistently requests to write more than this himself you revisit the IEP? This way you would be assured the para support is provided and DS can't by definition be required to do more than allowed.

i.e. "Developmentally appropriate lined paper will be provided for all writing tasks. On writing tasks of 2 lines or less DS will be encouraged but not required to write independently. Para support will be provided for any writing task longer than 2 lines. For a task 3 lines or longer DS and para may alternate writing 1-2 lines each. Para will do all writing after DS completes a maximum of 4 handwritten lines."

The alternating is not essential but would hopefully ensure that he is receiving the para support and is not "choosing" to write beyond his comfort level because he does not want to wait for him/her.

ARGGGGGHHH,

So, I was suppose to get back them (the IEP team) on this whole issue about what to do when DS wants to write more... that was what was said at the iep meeting - "think about it, talk to DS. Get back to us on how you want to handle DS wanting to write more..." SO I did, after chatting with you all here I wrote the following:

"Dear [Person sending draft IEP],
Thank you, this is wonderful. However, I have given more thought to our discussion about the scribing accommodation, as the team had asked, and I spoke to DS about it, as the team had suggested. I also talked with some private OTs about the accommodation. As you will recall, we were concerned about situations when DS wants to write more on his own and what to do then. Our current accommodation reads "Provide a scribe after three lines of writing on developmentally appropriate lined paper." After some careful consideration and speaking with OTs and BDS, I am thinking that we should make it as follows:

“Developmentally appropriate lined paper will be provided for all writing tasks. DS will be encouraged to write up to 2 lines on developmentally appropriate lined paper on any task independently. A scribe will be provided for any task that will require DS to write more than 3 lines and DS will be permitted to write up to 4 lines on developmentally appropriate lined paper if he clearly indicates he wants to do so.”

I am wondering if I could perhaps get a very brief report each day of how much Ben wrote so that I know and can monitor his fatigue level, emotional state and even how to handle/modify homework that day? Let me know what you think! Thanks!"

So I get this back in response from Mr. Principal:
"Thank you for your further thought on how to word specially designed instruction related to Ben's writing needs. It would be best to discuss this in the context of an IEP meeting. The team can be available to meet at 8:00 A.M. On the following dates: Thurs. 4/11, Mon. 4/15, Wed. 4/17, and Fri. 4/19. Let me know what would work for you. If these dates are not workable for you we can certainly go back to our calendars."

He such an A$$. Anyway, We just had a new very involved OT eval done yesterday at a place that also treats dyslexia/dysgraphia we should get that report within the next two weeks. We also have a neuropsych eval at the beginning of MAy. I am thinking of saying to this guy "okay let's leave it at 3 lines for now and I'll sign the NOREP. {I am actually okay with that at least temporarily, particularly given polarbears's good points} and lets' hold off meeting again and discussing mroe changes to to SDIs until after all of the upcoming evals."

What do you all think?

I am pretty certain what is coming in the next month or so is a dyslexia or dygraphia diagnosis. The OT evaluator yesterday seemed to be very concerned about it - and becasue she tested DS without him reading she was not distracted by his good reading skills. She seemed to do a lot of reversal testing on him with letters and shapes, etc. She was surprised at his reading level given what she saw in here testing and she said she fears DS will fall aprt when the reading requirements increase. I think we are at least looking at a dyslexic dygraphia diagnosis coming from someone soon.

By the way this principal is getting to be a nightmare - I feel like the principla is going to make this as uncomfrotable for me as possible to punish me. Seriously think he is tryign to tire me out by forcing a meeting everytime we want to tweak the the IEP (although it backfired on him last time becasue I was not intimidated or bullied and aended up feeling that meeting had been a great idea!) He knows 8 am is hard for my advocate and me so he is using this to make it hard on me and also to try to get me without my advocate, I think.

Anyway, Sorry I keep bothering you all with this but I haven't a lot of other resources Any help advice is appreiaciated.