Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Really upsetting meeting with principal

Okay, the principal at my son's school is really upsetting me. I mean, I am just floored. So, I just had a very unpleasant encounter with him in person where he told me that we would not speak at the IEP meeting (to which I am bringing an advocate and he is aware that I am doing so) about the para's comments to my son about his scribing accommodations. First, he tells me that we are no longer going to communicate in writing/email and now this? So I said "oh yes we'll discuss it at the iep mtg that is one of the reasons we are meeting, because you didn't want to discuss it in writing." He said he would be "happy to talk with me about it alone after the iep meeting." I said "why? why wouldn't we discuss this at the iep meeting?" He said "Because it is a personnel issue." I said "well it may be that but it is a personnel issue that affected my son's IEP accommodations and his learning environment so it more than appropriate we discuss it at the IEP meeting." He continued to argue and said something like he would only deal with myself or my husband. I think that was his way of stating he will not talk around or with the advocate present. Seriously? Can he do that? I just said "we'll talk about it on Monday." And I plan on bringing it up with the advocate there so he can say in front of her or at the iep meeting that he will not discuss the para incident during the IEP. This guy is actually starting to scare me. I thought he was such a nice guy and it seem like when we are alone he gets very intimidating... I am so upset, my stomach is in knots. Whenever I get this stressed I drop weight like crazy and I have lost like 2 lbs in the past two days.

Not to take his side (cause he sounds overall unpleasant to me,) but I know in a regular company managers are strictly forbidden from discussing personnel issues outside of the specific employee, human resources, and chain of management. Even if something impacted someone outside of that chain, we could only communicate that the problem was addressed and what the procedure is if the problem reoccurs. I would guess a public school would be under similar strictures and perhaps moreso if there is a union involved.

I don't understand how he can unilaterally impose a written communications embargo.

I hesitate to make any snap recommendation without knowledge of the specific policies in your district. However, I should think that the matter could be addressed by continuing to communicate in writing by email or registered mail, keeping a record of ignored communications, and launching a complaint with the superintendent. A complaint citing the comment by the principal would also help in indicating that the lack of communication is deliberate.

Many busy parents are unable to schedule calls or face-to-face meetings during a (unionized) principal's work hours. I can't think of any industry where refusal to communicate in the client's preferred mode of communication would be acceptable.

Actually I would be okay with this. I just want to know that it has been address, and what they are doing, i.e. was she talked to? (he does not have to tell me what was said) given additional training? or will she no longer be scribing for DS? DS says she hasn't been scribing for him so I think they just pulled her form him and that's fine. I also want to discuss how to avoid the problem in the future - having paras that will be providing accommodations to DS at the iep and educating them on why DS gets a scribe and how not to belittle DS.

I guess I'll see what the advocate says. It was she, in fact,who advised me to follow up with what happened to para and what the results of the principal's mtg with para were, was she talked to? given disability sensitivity training? Or was she removed/replaced.

Get the advocate's advice on this. If you've signed waiver papers allowing the advocate to work with the school, I see no reason for them not to be included in the conversation.

Yes, I do see it as stonewalling.

DeeDee

This is a total guess on my part, but it sounds like your principal is trying to be sure he doesn't say or communicate anything in writing that the district could get sued over. I'm also guessing that it's possible you aren't the first family who's had an issue with this para and maybe there's a history or more to the story than you are privy to knowing. SOOOoooooo... with that in mind, I still think you can address this issue at your meeting. You don't have to mention the para by name to mention the problem that happened when a para was in the classroom working with your ds - so most definitely, put it in the meeting notes or in your comments or in a meeting summary to someone that ____ happened. Don't be put off by the principal being worried about paper trails or meeting minutes.

I'm also guessing your advocate will have some good advice and possibly insight on what's going on.

Sending you a hug - I can't imagine how frustrating your conversation must have been!

polarbear

ps - I would also, fwiw, send an email today back to the principal describing everything that was said in the conversation you had with him. Tell him he doesn't have to respond unless there is something you've misunderstood, you're just sending the email to summarize the conversation to be sure you were clear on what you heard.

Well, it seems like now the message is 'I won't talk with you if you have an advocate present.' I am of stable mind in general LOL and I am relatively intelligent and relatively well-educated and that is the implied message I am getting.

First, he says "no more emailing, we talk in person" *specifically* in response to an email I sent inquiring about the para situation. I say "okay, I am fine with talking via email but I respect your desire to meet, let's meet" He says "let's have an iep meeting and we'll discuss your concerns and finalize IEP." I say "okay and btw, a advocate is coming with me" and then, today he says "oh I won't discuss certain things in the iep meeting." ???? and "I only want to deal with you or your husband" ???

I would just ignore him on this. He sounds like he is trying to intimidate you out of bringing an advocate so that he can pull the wool over your eyes if he feels like it at the meeting. I'm guessing your school district's SPED policy handbook will have a section that specifically addresses who can be present at an IEP meeting and that it will include parents being able to bring an advocate... so you could pull out a copy of the policy if you want to and bring it to the meeting along with your advocate And I'm guessing your advocate will be able to help you find the notation in the policy quickly if it's there

polarbear

ps - I think I remember that you are a lawyer - is that correct? I half-wonder if maybe the principal is intimidated by that?

I don't even care what happened to the para... I just want to be sure the situation was addressed and that it doesn't happen again, that's all.

He is freaking me out... I am really quite shocked by his behavior. I guess this is what happens when you mention "violation of iep" and "procedural safeguards" apparently I have flipped a switch in this guy with those two phrases. I am almost sorry I uttered them as he is nothing like the guy I dealt with back in September.

Also, he "planned" this impromptu meeting... He got the assistant principal there in his office waiting for me when he said "you got a minute to talk in person?" I said "sure" .. when I got back there he and the assistant VP were both waiting there for me. She didn't say anything. I really think I am going to have to start recording all of our meetings. It's like he keeps trying to get me alone to intimidate me.

I did ignore him - I simply kept repeating "we'll talk about it all at the iep meeting" I said it over and over... He seemed really, really angry. I actually find him a little scary and that is saying a lot. Yes I am lawyer... it doesn't seem to help though

As others have said, there are prickly legal issues with discussing internal personnel actions with the general public. In light of this, I would let go of all your other questions in the quote above, except the bolded, because when you get down to it, that's all you really care about. Sure, at this point you're boiling mad at the para, and want to see her punished, but that's a side issue that doesn't help your son get the services he requires. I'd drop it and focus on my son, and the results of whatever actions the school has taken, or propose to take.

I hear ya. Actually I am not boiling mad (I'm just disappointed) ... I just want to make sure she and/or other paras know what the deal is with DS and know not to belittle him for getting the accommodations. I had the same problem last year with a para with horrible consequences, and now this again a milder version of the same problem ... I just want/need to find a way to stop this from happening every year - i.e, paras working with DS need to be educated properly and deal with DS respectfully and supportive.

Yes. I would do this.

Actually, this is great advice - not only because it is practical and positive but because it is true. DS is much happier and less irritable now that he is getting his scribing accommodations, now that he is permitted to do enrichment work in math instead of re-writing his numbers, and now that the offending para is not longer scribing for him. He is much better/happier and he is flying ahead in math. I think this really good advice, MON - it is a good strategy as it reinforces what they are doing that is RIGHT ... and it proves that I was right about what the problem was/is, i.e., DS has behavior problems (and anxiety) when DS is in a hostile learning environment - his environment was growing more and more toxic and he was becoming more and more irritable and unhappy. Now that that tide has been reversed he is flourishing again. It's true and it is much appreciated. The stress that *I* need to go through to get to everything that point is not appreciated but, hey, I guess I could look at the bright side - they sure are getting me thin for bathing suit season.

Not fair marytheres - you get skinny for bathing suit season. I gain weight and break out from the stress of it all...

Thank you Mater of None. Wonderful advice. I will approach the meeting with that spirit and I will find as many opportunities to thank them all for all that they did to turn things around. Everyone likes and excels when the positives are reinforced and praised - even adults and even principals. I really needed to hear what you posted and I really needed this perspective!

LOL, Well I do break out form the stress if that is any consolation!

I looked up your state education laws, Title 22, and section 16.32 says GIEP meetings include "other individuals at the discretion of either the parents or the district", so he can't keep your advocate out.

Thank you Nautigal!

I would be inclined to consider bringing up all topics you deem appropriate at the IEP meeting, including the para/scribe's noncompliance with the IEP accommodations, and if he refuses to discuss the situation at the IEP meeting, then sending a letter documenting his refusal to discuss this aspect of the IEP with the advocate present.

I'm inclined to start written documentation when schools start intimidating or harassing behavior.

I went through a great deal with a public preschool regarding my daughter's life-threatening food allergies. The starting point was meeting with me and my 4 year-old and saying in front of her that her teacher, school nurse, and administrator met and concluded it was "better for them if she didn't attend" because of her life-threatening food allergies. They also refused to hold a meeting to determine her eligibility for a 504 Plan, despite a formal written request.

Written documentation via letters is an option. We did make some headway. She was allowed to attend the public preschool program they already had invited her to attend. She did get a fabulous 504 Plan, thanks to again, careful written documentation and substantiation of deficits that jeopardized her.

The administrators did threaten me at the 504 meeting that nothing was to be in writing or I found myself miserable for the rest of our time at that district. (No, I didn't stop written documentation of serious issues, such as my daughter not being allowed to attend school, the school refusing to hold a meeting to address eligibility for a 504 Plan, my daughter being given several foods containing her allergens at a party after conversations w/3 different personnel addressing the upcoming party and the plan to ensure my DD's safety. I found a gracious way to gently document their request nothing be in writing.)

With life-threatening food allergies, my daughter's life was literally at stake. Whatever protection I secured that year -- receiving a 504 or not, the specific accommodations listed in a 504 plan -- likely would be the level of protection she would have until high school.

The school district so flagrantly disregarded 40 years of disability law and reacted so shockingly that I felt I had no choice except to resort to written documentation. It was in some senses successful. At the same time, it was extremely stressful. I ended up deciding to homeschool, so that my time and energy could be spent on my children and their education instead of trying to persuade someone else to ensure my daughter's life would be protected.

These situations are so tricky. I would love to have achieved the same results through nice, diplomatic conversations. I tend to get concerned that if school districts make a very intimidating and inappropriate move (such as the way you were told the issue related to your son's IEP would not be discussed), then I think you need to consider that if it goes unchecked you have opened the door to them continuing and increasingly using such tactics with you. I think written documentation can be a successful "check" on such behavior.

I hope this helps! Good luck!

This is good advice. In our district, if you bring a lawyer, they have to bring theirs, and it escalates into an adversarial process quickly. But sticking with the advocate and using a positive strategy is going to be a reasonable next step that calms the principal down.

DeeDee

I strongly agree with this!