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What do you think of this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/27/AR2008042702129.html

I see my son making decisions about what are "useful" assignments and what are meaningless, but I try to impress on him the importance of grades in getting into colleges and getting scholarships. I know I've harped on this before, but I think girls are more naturally "obedient" (or at least I was as a student) and wouldn't dare to not complete major % of homework. Part of me gets angry thinking the boy got that autonomy to make those decisions. Very interesting

I'm curious about why this autonomy angers you? Because you didn't take it yourself, or because you think it's wrong? I'm assuming the former, but maybe I misunderstand.

I was rather surprised at how supportive the comments that they posted were overall. Aside from one "It's not fair to the other kids if he gets a good grade and doesn't do his work!" the comments were all very understanding, very pro-GT.

Interesting, indeed...

I know on other forums and e-lists they've been asking people to write in and share info and experiences about GTness. I guess the writer is not very pro-GT, but he's sort of admitting he might have it all wrong.

On the issue of getting the choice to complete all the work, I guess there is always a difficult line we try to follow. Many of the "obedient" girls struggle with perfectionim. DH who teaches college has a ton of perfectionistic students who freak out if they don't get an A. They turn in all their work and they should get an A and if they don't get an A then they must be a bad person (or something like that). I don't think we want that either.

I agree, acs. Perfectionism's not good either, and it is the logical flip-side of this issue. I know my bigger fear for my HG+ child was that he'd toe the line too much and never learn to think for himself, not that he'd be too much of a rebel. Though neither one is exactly what we strive for as parents...

I guess my "anger" is based on my current situtation with my children (boys). As a parent I am frustrated with an adolescent who feels he has that autonomy to make those decisions (not do homework if it's stupid, turn in stuff late, not at all because it's difficult, but the opposite). I tell him the grade IS important. It is completely within his ability to Ace everything he's enrolled in, so I'm very frustrated and feel it's almost deliberate torture of mom (and dad) to scratch out the As at the very last moment. The boy in the story didn't get As always (C's in chemistry) because he couldn't be bothered with assignments. His parents were distressed that he couldn't get into Virginia Tech because his GPA wasn't stellar and I took her writing as a warning to other parents to not ignore the "rules" just to keep your kid challenged. On one hand I think it was a great thing for the kid, but on the other hand, it's exactly the point I'm trying to prove to my son. Sad fact that really good grades are easier to sell to colleges and scholarship opportunities. Just because a kid thinks he's too smart for the busy-work, doesn't mean he is excused from it. Hopefully in honors or AP classes, the assignments are valuable (we all know that doesn't always happen), but even if they're not, we as parents have to make our expectations known that they have to be done. I don't like to scrub toilets, think it's a waste of my abilities, but I still do it.

On the one hand, certainly GT kids, like everyone else, need to understand that some tasks that need to be done in life are extremely dull. On the other hand, usually those life tasks have a certain amount of importance above and beyond "following rules". For example, I need to get the bills paid, even though I hate it and it's boring, because if I don't there could be serious consequences to credit, not to mention the fact that the people whom I need to pay indeed need the payment. Tedious employer protocols need to be followed because they were set up for a reason (hopefully a good one lol). In contrast, with busywork, there is no benefit for the student or the school/teacher/class for the student having done busywork - it is merely a waste of time.

And yet, I have a hard time sympathizing with the student who chooses on their own not to follow the rules, even when the rules are really, really dumb. A better system somehow would allow for asking permission not to do the assignments, or something. I'm not sure how that would work though. Perhaps, at least in AP courses, which by their nature are supposed to be college-level work, the students should be treated likewise - graded only on a midterm and a final, with a failure to do assignments at the student's peril in terms of learning but not in terms of grades - another method to learning responsibility, I guess.

just some random thoughts

I know a few men pretty well who are brilliant, but don't like doing any work unless they understand why they are doing it. They didn't ever do well in school, but they are fabulous farmers, mechanics, fishermen, etc. They do a lot of grunt work in these jobs and they do it without complaining and they all have at least adequate self-discipline. They just didn't like school work. Not every brilliant person needs to go to college.

And some colleges are better suited to people who balk at useless tasks than others. Virginia Tech is not one of those, apparently. There are many great schools where there is more flexibility. They key is to try to find a good fit and to know that sometimes that means finding what your child needs outside of the 4 year college system.

I suspect some of this is "good college" syndrome: there are plenty of colleges that would accept someone with the scores this kid has, regardless of a few Cs on his transcript. From my admittedly cursory reading of this article, it sounds like they didn't apply to those colleges. Those schools that would want him are usually not the big and relatively cheap state schools, but are instead the far more expensive private colleges. I think that's probably the trade off: do less work and pay more money for college. Get straight As and high test scores and go for free or at least a lot closer to it.

Just another idea...

And has somebody who has been to both kinds of colleges, based on my experience (I know there are exceptions), I would say, "You get what you pay for." Those small colleges are darn good. I was not so impressed with my highly ranked state school experience.

I'm of so many minds on this one.

One thing that struck me at the blog of the G&T teacher, was a mom wrote in after telling her DD that school is preparation for life where you'll have to do boring, mundane stuff all the time. The DD remarked and I"m paraphrasing here "Well if life is as boring as school, I'm going to commit suicide b/c it's just not worth it." The DD meant it. The mom knew changes had to be made.

I think you have to look at degrees. If it's one course DC is bored with, it's a good lesson to learn dealing w/ boredom, playing the game, toeing the line etc. If most of all the classes are this way, then something needs to change. The boy in the letter took outside courses to learn, from those courses he learned how to study, etc...if DC is content to do all the boring, easy work just to make A's and never learns to study, persevere when things get hard, that will not serve them in college either where most will encounter some need to study.

Also, I think it is hard to know what is going on in someone else's mind. I battle nightly w/ DS over homework. This is easy stuff he could have easily done a year or more ago. Why can't he do it? He says "when it's too easy, I just can't focus on it." So i'm yelling, he's crying, 2hrs later he is finishing a worksheet that it takes the rest of the kids 10min to do. On occasion he has not done the homework and I let him reap the consequences but there are none from the teacher. So perhaps he does have trouble focusing on it rather than being disobedient, bucking the rules, etc. I don't know.

I do model all the boring tasks that i have to do and what the consequences are for not doing them. But I think for elementary aged kids, it's hard to say that what they are doing now, bad habits they are forming, will affect them as adults. My DH told DS "Just wait until Highschool, you'll be able to take AP classes." DS said "Highschool is so far away." And he's right...for a 2nd grader, high school is far away. But I know my boring tasks are for the good of the household/family. I'm not sure what the higher good is of doing work DC has already mastered.

Can you tell I struggle with this topic constantly...ying yanging between extremes? And then settling in the middle?

Dazed and confused (aka Dazey)