Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Possible Dyslexia advice?

I'm starting to get concerned that Wolf (8 1/2) might have undetected dyslexia. I've been talking with his teacher and she sent me to a site. I made a list of all the markers he showed:

trouble tying shoes and other knots, speech delay (checked at 18 months), still does not consistently know left/right, trouble with spelling tests when given out of sequence, 2 finger writing grip, trouble copying, word spacing problems, spelling problems, trouble consistently writing on the line, inconsistency of letters shape and creation, letter size issues, still reversing letters after 4 years instruction and practice, problems with forgetting punctuation and capitalization, difficulty getting thoughts down on paper in acceptable form, Written work shows signs of spelling uncertainty—numerous erasures, cross outs, etc, Writing is a slow, labored, non-automatic chore, Avoids writing whenever possible, Does not notice errors when “proofreading,” trouble with long division, trouble organizing belongings,

This really stood out to me: People with dyslexia usually have an “impoverished written product.” That means there is a huge difference between their ability to tell you something and their ability to write it down.

I know "gifties" can compensate for things like dyslexia until the work load gets too heavy and I think that might be the case here. In December we started focusing on his writing and expected more advanced output which he should be capable of, but he started losing his appetite and has actually lost weight. He's also started getting very upset over even simple problems in unrelated areas. When i asked him what the hardest part of writing was he told me, "Figuring out how to write my letters."

So, has anyone else been in a situation like this? We're moving schools next year (he's going into a 2 day a week middle school homeschool program, the equivalent of a second skip, and the school looks like as close to a perfect fit as we will ever get) and I'm trying to figure out if we should test now, in our current district which doesn't have a Gifted program or if we should wait till we get to the other school district (our home one) where they do have a Gifted program. If it ends up with an IEP it would be nice to have the gifted stuff on there, but I'm also worried that switching schools with an IEP will cause issues.

Any advice from those of you who have been here?

Honestly, most of your symptom list sounds more like dysgraphia than dyslexia to me. How does he do with reading nonsense words? How is his auditory working memory?

He's fine with pretty much anything, including long division, as long as it doesn't involve him writing anything down. He can sound out nonsense words and long words in science texts given time. He doesn't always get them right, but generally close enough following phonics rules.

I've heard that dyslexia and dysgraphia tend to go hand in hand and that you generally don't have JUST dysgraphia. I don't know much about either subject though since I haven't hit this 2(or 3 or 4)e issue previously.

My 10yo son has dyslexia/dysgraphia and he has every single one of those symptoms except for the speech and organizational issues. So yes, it sounds to me like your son might have dyslexia and/or dysgraphia.

My sense is that you should test him now, especially if you think the current school will write a strong IEP. But if he's not behind, it's unlikely they'll give him an IEP. My son has a 504. His accommodations are: using a computer to type, extra time on tests, teacher handouts instead of copying from the board, allowing verbal assessments of knowledge if requested, allow use of scribes or dictation (meaning I can type what he tells me to type for homework), not counting off for spelling except on spelling tests, grading for content instead of "looks."

As for switching schools with an IEP-- what problems do you think that would cause?

My son has all of those and a few more, and he has a fine motor coordination disorder (still can't ride a bike at 13), dyslexia and dysgraphia.

Focusing on his written output and trying to improve it through conventional methods is likely going to hurt more than help. It wasn't until he was finally diagnosed and started therapy (Wilson reading program, speech therapy, occupational therapy) that things improved. The other major factor for improvement was age - at the beginning of 7th grade we saw a huge jump in his ability with written output. That being said, no amount of studying or practice has helped with spelling, memorizing times tables or with lessening his calculation errors in math.

The losing weight and nausea are classic signs of anxiety, too.

If it were me, I'd get him into a specialist such as a pediatric neuropsychologist to get a diagnosis and start the process for getting an IEP with accommodations in place. But be sure the specialist has some expertise in this area aa they're not all cut from the same cloth.

The sooner you identify the sooner you can start appropriate interventions. It sounds to me like dysgraphia but my DD has just about every dys______ you can have so it's hard for me to differentiate them for you. Targeted, specific interventions will be the most helpful. Transferring schools with an IEP, especially if it is a good one, will give him the supports he needs from the beginning.

Good luck!

Honestly, and maybe it's just my experience/district but if your guy is gifted and has dyslexia or dysgraphia, school district testing is either not going to catch it or if they do 'see it' they will not be able to "diagnose it" per Dept of Ed regulations or something. My son looks like he has classic dysgraphia ... I mean, he's got every single symptom and he'll write every number and most letters backwards if left to work independently... Heck he'll even write from right to left sometimes. My school district has tested him and simply can not diagnosis it. He never falls far enough "below average" (on one test, I believe) for them to say "dysgraphia." Actually, even if he did fall far enough below, my district can not actually use the word "dysgraphia" . I have to get him a neuropsych eval anyway. The district testing was basically a waste of time.

Well, of course different people will define these disabilities different ways. But I can tell you that my DD9 has been diagnosed with dysgraphia but not dyslexia. I asked her neuropsych specifically about stealth dyslexia and she said that DD9 seems to have excellent auditory working memory, and her ability to read single words aloud (which she called a hallmark of dyslexia) is also excellent. She made some errors in the nonsense words, but the neuropsych said they seemed to be developmentally appropriate. She said it's worth keeping our eyes open to see if reading problems develop, but that right now, she really appears to have only dysgraphia and not dyslexia. This is someone who works with the Eides on occasion and whom I really trust.

I think that it's impossible to know for sure what's up with these types of challenges without a thorough evaluation. I've found there are different definitions of what is "dyslexia" among different professionals, and in my own experience it's been more helpful understanding the impact on life and academic functioning as well as understanding the root causes *behind* the symptoms you see more than simply thinking of it in terms of a name/diagnosis. Most of what you wrote describes my ds13 when he was 8 1/2 years old before he was diagnosed with dysgraphia. In his case, dysgraphia exists alone, without any concerns about what is typically considered to be dyslexia. OTOH, my dd8 has a dyslexia diagnosis (from one professional), is considered solidly *not* dyslexic by another professional, struggles tremendously with one particular skill related to reading, but doesn't struggle with writing. Even though one professional labels her dyslexic and the other doesn't, both are well-respected in our community, both gave a routine dyslexia screening as well as additonal testing, both see the same area of weakness and challenge, and both agree on the type of remediation she needs.



I would want to get an evaluation *now* - losing his appetite and losing weight sound like he is struggling with anxiety.


I wouldn't be quick to assume that the "unrelated areas" aren't related problems. You mentioned challenges with long division - what specifically is happening with long division? Is he having difficulty understanding the concept? Difficulty remembering how to do the calculations step-by-step from one work session to the next? Or is he having difficulty coming up with the correct answer because he accidentally switches numbers around or makes mistakes in copying? If the challenge is mistakes in copying, switching numbers etc - that's most likely either dysgraphia or dyslexia. The other types of difficulty are more likely related to a different type of challenge. These are the things that are (in my experience) best understood through a full neuropsych evaluation.


This sounds like classic dysgraphia.

Among the reasons I would strongly recommend a private neuropsych evaluation:

1) Understanding what's causing the issues you're seeing- this is important not only for you, but also for your ds. My ds was diagnosed at 8 1/2 years old - but he'd been struggling (unrecognized) for years, and his self-esteem had already taken a big hit and he was struggling with a huge amount of anxiety due to undiagnosed dysgraphia. Having a diagnosis and an explanation of his challenges made a huge difference in *his* life and relieved quite a bit of his anxiety.

2) Creating a plan forward- if it's either dysgraphia or dyslexia (or another type of challenge) your ds will need accommodations (such as typing, extended time on tests etc) and possibly remediation - the neuropsych will be able to help you come up with a plan for accommodations and remediation if it's needed.

3) Whatever is impacting your ds' academics at the moment may be something that impacts his life beyond academics, and may continue to be a challenge for years to come - ie, it's quite possibly not just a "school" issue. We focus so much of our attention on school when our children are young simply because that's what takes up 90% of their lives at that point, but LDs etc don't stop at 3 pm when school lets out, and they don't get left behind when a student graduates from college or whatever. If you only look at them in terms of academics, it's easy to do things such as accommodate in ways that get around the challenge, when understanding what's up can instead help you face it and learn how to best deal with it for life, not just work-around it for school.


My recommendation, just for the moment, is to separate the issues of planning academics for gifted instruction vs finding an understanding and plan forward for the challenges you've outlined. You have a good understanding of where your ds is academically re his strengths, and you need to determine why he is struggling with writing etc.

The first step (again, jmo) you need to think through is: will you get a better and reliable understanding of the challenges through school district testing, or through private testing. There are some advantages to private testing, and for many of us here, private testing has been invaluable. Our ds has been through both, so I'll outline the differences we've experienced - your school district may be more helpful with testing than ours was.

School district:
- had very low bars on what was considered to be a concern, hence very difficult for the school to see issues for a child who's overall cognitive abilities are high.
- is very limited in $ and staff that are available for providing services, hence the school staff seemed to be operating on an agenda of not finding anything wrong that they might be required to accommodate or remediate.
- school staff had *very* limited experience evaulating 2e kids
- IEP process only gave us a "plan forward" for one school year at a time
- we had to know what to ask for re accommodations and remediation; the school didn't offer up anything we didn't ask for
- we also had to know what type of testing ds needed to understand his writing challenges; the school only offered up ability vs achievement testing, but when we asked for an additional test they provided it - the key was, we had to know what to ask for
- the school shared subtest results from their psych testing, but didn't prepare any type of detailed report or offer up a diagnosis from it; instead they the school psych gave us a list of all the possible things other than an LD that could be causing ds to not produce written work in the classroom

Private Neuropsych eval:

- included far more testing than the school district eval, including testing that highlighted the cause of ds' dysgraphia, which was key for us in remediating/accommodating
- gave us a vision for a detailed plan forward (remediation and accommodation) not just for one school year but for the remainder of elementary, middle school and on - what to do now, what to do over the summer, what to do next year and what to do when that accommodation is outgrown etc
- gave us specific recommendations for what we could expect the school district to offer as well as recommendations for private professionals who were good sources for OT, tutoring, etc
- looked at the WHOLE picture of our ds' functioning and development, including early development history, family history of related challenges, looked through schoolwork samples, included a functional behavior inventory filled out by parents and teachers
- the evaluation wasn't targeted at one specific diagnosis; the neuropsych listened to our concerns, but provided a comprehensive evaluation. In our ds' case, this was significant, because it caught issues we'd never seen simply because we didn't know to look for them
- the evaluation *did* provide a diagnosis, as well as a full report which has been invaluable not only in helping us as parents understand how to deal with the challenges our ds has, but also has been invaluable in advocating at school.

I see it all as steps:

1) Figure out what the challenge is (you'll need some type of eval, either private or through the school)
2) Determine what you think your ds will need (accommodation, remediation, both)
3) Seek either an IEP or 504 based on the answer to #2

Meanwhile, in parallel or after you've worked your way through defining and making a plan for the writing etc challenges, figure out what you'll need to do for gifted services in your new school district and whether or not the services are documented through IEPs (they aren't in all school districts). You can always request that they be added in with an IEP for challenges, and you can also always *always* request an IEP meeting to update an IEP once it's written and in place.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thank you very much everyone, life took over for a bit there.

Wolf had his meeting (a modified SST I think it was) and we were basically told that since he isn't working at least 2 years below his age that they weren't going to do anything for him. Okay, the OT did give us some suggestions and will give us some support, but no testing or diagnosing or anything like that. In fact I was told that he's doing fine for a second grader (even without the skip he'd be in 3rd which they ignored). They also ignored the fact he's been in a formal schooling situation for 4 years and is still having these problems. AND on top of all of that the phrase "If he'd been in a regular classroom..." was repeated ad nauseum even after I had explained repeatedly that he's been with a credentialed teacher from age 5 and has done everything a kid in a regular classroom would have done, just at a faster rate. There was a lot of "he's so bright why are you worried if he is working above level in most areas" and "You should just slow him down and let him catch up."

Needless to say I resorted to massive amounts of tongue biting to survive the meeting. No IEP, no testing, no 504... He's just "not far enough behind," never mind the fact it stresses him out so much he's been losing weight!

What I got out of it (mostly from the OT, the other two seemed to have no interest in helping at all) was that at the minimum he has fine motor skill delay of at least a year which may or may not be the cause of what looks like dysgraphia or dyslexia. He also can't do transfers from one paper to another so we are switching to direct transfer work until he gets better with that. He's also going to be doing drawing and coloring, basketball and catch to help with left/right processing.

We are low income so actual testing with a neuropsych is going to be an issue. I'm in contact with his pediatrician to see if she has any suggestions and will be calling their insurance to see what might be covered. I just need to know what's going on so I can help him because if it's dyslexia that's different than dysgraphia which is different from simply fine motor delay. Argh. Sorry, this was a bit ranty.