Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Emotional outbursts leading to...being expelled?

Hi,
My dear nephew who is 7 and in first grade is having trouble with emotional outbursts in school. Typically he sees somebody 'cheating' in a game in gym (which apparently they sometimes are in a not-so-big way and nobody else cares) or thinks someone is making fun of him at lunch (which sometimes they are, but sometimes are just being rowdy) and he gets upset and can't handle his emotions and sometimes ends up hitting. Recently he was suspended for hitting his teacher when she tried to intervene. My dear sister and her husband have tried a lot of things and are very frustrated. Nephew has been evaluated and found to be HG+ but did not meet criteria for any disorder (particularly ADD/ADHD). The teacher has been helpful with making some changes to help nephew stay out of trouble but it's not working even though she does seem to 'get' him and is trying to help (I think things like 'priority seating,' standing next to him when the kids line up, etc.). They're going to try social skills group work as well as continuing individual therapy but the school is pressuring them to get a diagnosis and an IEP which they are resisting because they're afraid it will mean they will have to put him on drugs, which they are completely against. It's unclear what the school would even want to put in an IEP and my sister is afraid they will want to put him in some kind of class for 'bad' kids. She thinks he'll outgrow these outbursts in a year or two as he matures socially but in the meantime of course this can't continue and they don't know what else to do. She might end up pulling him out to homeschool, which they have done before, but think it's better for him to learn social skills at school...if they can get him to stop acting out. Any BTDT advice on what else might help? Maybe neurofeedback? It seems like they're trying the things that would help, just that it's not helping (fast) enough. And they're worried that he might get expelled and that might go on his 'permanent' record and keep him out of other schools, public or private, and maybe even have to be reported when he applies college. I can't imagine it would affect college applications (unless he continued this behavior through high school), but don't know for sure. He's in a public school in Georgia but they would rather homeschool than get involved in any kind of legal stuff, plus of course they agree this kind of behavior is unacceptable. So very frustrating for everyone.

Has he had an OT evaluation?

If some issues were found in that domain then they might be okay with the treatment since it is usually exercises not medication.

I believe the best way to protect him is if he qualifies for and gets an IEP. He cannot be expelled for actions resulting from his area of disability - it becomes a whole new ballgame. Our school social worker would get involved in this type of situation working with him both independently and perhaps in groups. The parents cannot be required to medicate him - that is a medical decision and my understanding is the school would get in *big* trouble if they tried to force it - think practicing medicine without a license. We had a situation last year where our truly awful principal insisted on publicly punishing DD for an anxiety response. The district acknowledged in writing that this was a violation of her IEP and this action was included in our recent complaint to the Dept of Education. The playing field totally changes once he has an IEP - definitely worth going for if he qualifies.

Thanks for the responses. He did have an overall evaluation that I think included NEPSY and similar tests and does have some minor handwriting issues, but I don't think there were any other indications of problems although I will be sure to mention it.

Pemberley--thanks for the info. I have only a vague idea of how IEPs work since we have not been in public school and that was my impression, but I wasn't sure. I've been encouraging them to look into it more but they're worried about any label 'sticking' forever and they really seem convinced he will grow out of it (because of their own experiences as kids). But I think I've seen on this board some comments about IEPs changing or maybe even going away, which makes sense. I hope your complaint to the Dept. of Education goes well; I've been following your posts a little and am sorry you've had trouble. Who wants to become an expert on this stuff!?! Good luck and thanks again.

The way I look at it ... IEP = help + protection ... but nobody can force us into anything (absolutely in no way would I let anyone force me into medicating my kids unless I found it medically necessary). A lot of times it takes some big time jumping through hoops and loops to actually get an IEP so if they can get it, they should!

Awww-- poor kid, and poor parents!! It sounds like he's really having trouble with emotional regulation.

I agree with the others-- IEP = GOOD THING here.


Therapeutic interventions might well be a way to NOT have to just "suffer through" the problem until it naturally self-resolves. After all, by that time, he may well have gained a behavioral reputation even if he doesn't have an official "LABEL."

Besides, if the behavior slowly escalates in some fashion, it will be difficult for parents to detect just when things cross some line into disordered conduct. Earlier help with this problem seems like a good idea to me. {{hugs}} to them, though-- it's so hard to watch a good kid have problems like this.


I understand their fear about meds-meds-meds, but if they choose to approach things from a behavioral modification standpoint with a THERAPIST/counselor rather than a psychiatrist, then that should be more of a last-resort kind of thing. And unless he's truly a danger to others, I can't envision how anyone could force medication that parents didn't agree to.

Hi Dbat,
There is this site, wrightslaw, I googled wrightslaw georgia

http://www.wrightslaw.com/blog/?p=67

they might want to read up to learn more.

If I could go back in time with my DD, she had been in a school with good communication (meaning when something happens they have details about when and what) and nice attitude from her school, such as what you report the teacher is like, AND lived in a state where gifted ed were mandated I think I would have prefered the IEP route. But I would have wanted the gifted ed needs being met as part of the package, because those needs to need to be met for these kids - the higher the "G" the more crucial. DD never hit anyone though, she mostly broke down crying, or argued her teachers into a circle (her reasoning and verbal skills are off the chart, which isn't an excuse, but adults get caught up in it, forgetting her real age).

I can understand his parent's concerns very much. It might have been legal in the past for schools to say "medicate or you're out" but it's not now, but parents need to really know the laws and their rights and how the process works in order to stay on top of it. Have they spoken to their pediatrican yet? Drs or practices often have a base philosophy and your nephew's parents could see if they believe the doctor would support a no-meds approach. Also don't choose a psycholgist etc. from one of those large practices that is known for churning out the diagnosis and meds. There are usually ones with that reputation in every city/town.

If they choose to homeschool until he outgrows this as they did (keeping in mind school environments are so different now, so regulated and stressful due to the performance mandates etc.) I don't think he'd get that behavioral reputation. He might have similar issues though if he goes to group homeschooling activities, but it would be more manageable.

Also of course look into diet and allergies and exercise for ways to help him be calmer more over all. All that junk like the dyes and HF corn syrup in kid's meals (maybe even in school lunches still) really can aggravate/agitate more sensitive kids.

Yes, definitely the IEP = good thing for this!

Our DS would have been expelled or at least suspended over and over again if it weren't for his IEP for Asperger's. He had behavioral outbursts exactly as you describe (at least one for each of those same reasons, plus some) and would lash out at the other kids, sometimes hitting, sometimes yelling inappropriate things or threatening them. The school was fabulous for all the social skills training they gave him, and by this year we let the IEP go (with the understanding that we can put it back if needed) because he is behaving so well these days. But in the years when he racked up six pink slips, he'd have been gone if not for the IEP that protected him from suspension or expulsion.

As said above, they can't be forced to medicate him, and the IEP should contain what everyone agrees upon -- social skills training being paramount.

Did they do an ADOS, or look at the possibility of autism spectrum disorders? These kids are often missed when they're gifted, because their language is so good; yet the social thinking mistakes you're describing are very characteristic.


The school cannot legally recommend medication, let alone force it. The child is entitled to a free, appropriate, public education regardless of any decision about medication. There is no school record that follows a person through life.

As for the label: right now I'd bet that other kids are scared of your nephew for his unpredictable behavior. If there's something going on that can be labeled, that label is probably preferable to the informal labels that the kids are already giving him in their thoughts.

I would recommend cognitive behavior therapy and maybe Michelle Garcia Winner's Social Thinking curriculum. Those work explicitly on understanding how one's thoughts influence one's actions, and how other people think about what you do.


An IEP won't completely stop them from expelling him, but in our experience it gives much more leeway for appropriate correction of behavior issues and teaching the correct behavior. Highly recommended course of action is the IEP.

DeeDee

Thanks for the comments, everyone. It really does sound like an IEP is the way to go, and it's reassuring to know that IEPs can change or even 'go away.' They have been doing cognitive behavior therapy with the current psychologist and are now also reading more about 'Transforming the Difficult Child' and similar things--it's just not something that's going to help immediately. I don't know if the previous evaluation included ADOS, but I will ask--it sounded like a pretty thorough going-over. I hope things improve soon, though, because it does sound like some of the other kids are intimidated by his behavior, and then he has even more trouble trying to fit in. Thanks again; I'll pass it all along and hope it helps.